The Old Faithful Bait and Switch Trick

The Christian apologists “think” they have an answer for everything .They could just about talk somebody into believing a cat was a skunk without too much trouble if the person listening was devoted on enough charisma of faith , and already convinced the apologist would likely know what they was talking about.They might pick out a smelly old Persian Tom cat with some stripes and say look at that bushy tail ! and smell how much it stinks !, can’t you just tell it’s a skunk ?. And nine times out of ten among loyal devoted faithful , nobody would bother questioning anyone too much ,they`d all just nod their heads ! and throw in the odd hallelujah ! now and again or a couple of praise be`s ! just to help fool other folks they was actually awake and not being asleep. It’s why not a lot ever changes much very fast in most faith circles anywhere. Which is then also why even abusive cults last for years like they do. These faithful species of humans all come from the land of nod .

Check out this video off youtube called : Must Christianity Change or Die? from the program Faith under Fire

Bishop John Shelby Spong tries to talk some sense into these two devoted charisma drunk fundies . Imagine in ancient times just how hard it must have also been trying to get many ancient devoted charisma drunk faithful to change their thinking about the matter stoning people to death , to wake up and realize they were not thinking right ! and that it could no longer even be considered moral or good to stone people to death . Naturally the best they could do was for somebody to try feeding them some bullshite story about Gods new plan ,not a whole lot unlike how Bruce Hales or other church leaders today are the ones who suggest need of change when it suits them .Or when they know they can no longer carry on the way they do and look moral . And they call it something like divine inspiration or new light just to try to put a good spin on it . Just like the ancient apologists also did.

And in the land of faithfully nodding , mostly they all swallow it hook line and sinker.With hardly even batting an eye lid .

Notice the sly bait-switch that is made starting at about 2.37 on this video, by this Dr Albert Mohler.

Dr Albert Mohler says What i say first and foremost is this raises the question of whether we can trust that God is merciful and gracious and just and righteous,and the bottom line of all of this is that we are in no position to judge the character of God.He is the one instead who will judge us.And so when i look at those passages i have no problem with understanding it is not my job,it is not my responsibility,certainly not my place to judge God.It is God who will judge me.

Ok first Dr Albert Mohler suggests we are in no position to judge the character of God . Yet almost the very next breath he points toward a book men wrote and named the holy bible and so in actual honest effect trys suggesting maybe man was in a position to judge the character of God ?.

You cannot have it both ways ! . Cant say man cant judge character , then next moment try saying maybe he can by pointing towards whats written in the bible.

So its the old ….Bait and switch trick.

Apologist throw this type of double-speak bullshite around all the time .When it suits they will try to say man cannot know the character of God .Then again when they hope the devoted charisma drunk noddies are not thinking to deeply about matters they will go on about the holy bible as if in fact man could indeed know the character of God.

Aint it a real hoot ? 🙂  … Pity they didn’t invent skateboards years ago maybe faithful of ancient times could have better amused themselves with skating on skateboards like that hard case Catholic priest in my last post . Rather than dreaming up all their bullshite ideas of what Gods might be like.

Notice John Shelby Spong try his best to point out that Dr Albert Mohler has simply turned what men have written down in the holy bible ,into being known as word of God. In effect going back on his own words of what he just suggested ! , that supposedly man cannot know the character of God.

This is the blind devoted charisma drunk apologist thinking that has left our world in such a great mess . This is why our families in the Exclusive Brethren and Renton Brethren etc waste away our lives on this earth following such utter stupid bullshite . It’s why fathers and mothers have become separated from their children .It’s why some husbands or wives have died after many many long sad years of suffering , having never ever got to see their loved ones ever again , before they passed away from this world.

And yet its people like captain JOHN S. COLMAN who commented on my blog a few posts back with the fire and brimstone type threats , who for some reason think maybe it is me the agnostic/atheist who`s atleast not interested in being involved in any guess-work , who should have need to be afraid ?. Crikey like i already said , i would be far more fearful if i was one of these devotion charisma drunk theists who have been involved in promotion of guess-work about characters of God which it’s really obvious we had no good way of knowing about.

Bait and Switch is just using ancient deceitful methods .

Check out the facial expression on Dr Albert Mohlers face about the 3.10 mark , which you can find by putting your computer cursor (mouse pointer) on the round dot that moves along the red line at the bottom of the video . (you will see numbers appear that let you know what part of the video is playing)

To me Dr Albert Mohlers facial expression gives that look like a child that says …. Say what ever you like Shelby Sponge but im not listening to anything you say …im just faithfully nodding and its going straight in one ear and straight out the other side too.

This is the exact faithful noddy blindness that also keeps all our families enchained in cults .

Folks try blaming our families in these cults for where they have become firmly rooted …. But look at the noddy styles of these other faithful noddy types  …. Where do folks think our family’s all inherited it from ? .

When Bruce Hales employs publicity companies to try making the Exclusive Brethren look good , its little different to these faithful folk like the Dr Albert Mohlers of the world putting up smoke screens and trying to do the old bait and switch method … Where else did folks think they learned this deceitful practice from ? . Did they think some weird and whacky stalk bird delivered it to them specially ? like the old baby delivery myth .

What a terrible most nasty cancerous disease it is .

 What about the name of the TV program it come off … called Faith under Fire … L.o.L .. Nothing like adding a bit of the suggestions of persecution for helping the devoted feel more wonderful about themselves and all the charisma they are blind drunk on swallowing . Kinda makes you realize where the Jim Jones and David Koresh cult learned their meme`s from too huh 🙂

When will these people wake up and realize their covers been blown away by time and more knowledge . And realize how silly they look and sound .

Meanwhile many people must suffer and pay for the rights of people to live in such blindness . Jesus supposedly had a bad weekend on the cross until he was resurrected a few days later , so the story goes.

But it is no story at all ! that many people do indeed pay with their whole lives for peoples rights to believe these ancient beliefs .

Meaning its a utter complete lie that all was paid for on the cross , whether there is any truth to the Jesus story or not .

About ExEB

I'm a agnostic/atheist . Interested in learning more about science. I also am an "ex-member" of a group most publicly known within modern times, as the Exclusive Brethren. Whom are an off-shoot of the original Plymouth Brethren group. I'd say it likely my personality could possibly be described as quirky.You know ,as in being , unconventional , unorthodox , unusual, off-centre, strange, bizarre, weird, peculiar, odd, freakish, outlandish, offbeat, out of the ordinary, bohemian, alternative, zany I'm sure iv'e been classed as "crazy" . Many times But then, being born into a group like the exclusive brethren. Doesn't lend itself ? to tend to produce things considered as being "very normal" .Does it I escaped the Exclusive Brethren cult as a 15 year old teenager. Even since that time iv'e been trying to adjust to living life outside the cult. With much of my life being lived within the genre of "wild colonial boy" style. In the general sense of a church-rebel picking and choosing from role models who appeared within-life along the way. But as the exclusive brethren cult had traditionally maintained a general church-rule , of need to shun and totally excommunicate any ex member of their group.Treating such people as if they were dead. Thus this situation developed more to do with my need of following traditionally enforced church-rule , as apposed to it being so much about "life-choices". Certain emotional experiences, and parts of life in general, have led to me adopting a sense of low self esteem. Which is a situation i still deal with from time to time. Through my ongoing interest in science. I find i am able to gather more information to help me better understand my situation. Much about life for me, has often seemed like a massive puzzle.With many missing pieces.
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2 Responses to The Old Faithful Bait and Switch Trick

  1. feeno says:


    Boy have you been busy since I’ve been away. I read what you had to say but did not watch the “faith under fire” thingy. But after our long weird friendship I still wonder where you think the line should be drawn when it comes to peoples rights about what they can believe? Our beliefs might be outdated and might even seem silly to you and even tho I’d like to see you become a Believer I would never think of outlawing Atheism.

    Can we know the “character” of God? I wont ever hide from any questions or things you bring up. Even if I’m wrong I will try to give you a response. One thing we have to Judge God’s character is His word. the Bible does say God is incomprehensible. (Romans 11:33 and Job 11:7-19.) But it also says he is Holy, righteous, just, faithful, true, gracious, merciful and a bunch of other stuff.

    Just because we claim to be Christians doesn’t mean we automatically can understand everything about God. After all we are His creation. If understanding everything in the Bible was a prerequisite to becoming a Christian your wish would come true and there wouldn’t be any. Especially yours truly.

    Later Brah, feeno

    • ExEB says:

      Hey Feen thanks for the comment.Weird friendship ? goodness that make things sound bad. What do you mean by weird? is it the fact we have very differnt beliefs yet still talk to each other now and again. Is it that you somtimes wonder if im being so honest about saying i try to not be feeling anything personal in our many disagreements over matters of faith .Or are you just saying im weird ? , because let me be quick to say you dont need to be any prophet to understand that , but hey look what crazy folks i evolved from.Talking snake and donkey believers , and Gods that stopped the sun to allow folks to kill , and faith ancestors that thought it better to allow his own daughters to be handed out for rape rather than see another man be sodomized.

      And thats just for appetizers, theres plenty more madness where that lot came from . Sound terribly sane ? , or kinda weird ?.

      You should watch the video Feen.

      You said..“One thing we have to Judge God’s character is His word. the Bible does say God is incomprehensible. (Romans 11:33 and Job 11:7-19.) But it also says he is Holy, righteous, just, faithful, true, gracious, merciful and a bunch of other stuff.”

      Feen why do you go and do exactly what i been discussing in this post ? ,admittedly i know im not scholar and so i know i lack the ability to explain things very well .

      But in my post i had just said …. “Ok first Dr Albert Mohler suggests we are in no position to judge the character of God . Yet almost the very next breath he points toward a book men wrote and named the holy bible and so in actual honest effect trys suggesting maybe man was in a position to judge the character of God ?. “

      Dont you understand Dr Albert Mohler suggests we are in no position to judge the character of God . Meaning we humans are in no position to judge the charactor of God .

      Yet very next breath he points to a holy book named the bible , where humans did try to do exactly that ! .

      Thats blatant double speak Feen . Its the old tried and trusted Bait and Switch trick . Like a politician who say we wont do this , then next moment he doing exactly that ! what he said we cant be doing .

      Its bullshite . I hate to say this Feen but the fact you ask this this way makes me wonder if you also just dont think deeply about what im talking about .Because you already devoted , already decided nothing can be wrong without even bothering to think much about it . Its tough for me being completely honest about this stuff Feen , its tough being completely honest about things about my cult family too ,tough being honest about the West Bro Baptists and heaps of other folks who i really got no “personal” beef with . Its about being honest !, not personally hateful .

      That you automatically think the bible is Gods word , shows up all the devotion on charisma boldly sticking out like its a Bigfoots Big Toe . I mean a Hindu might say his holy book is God , and a Muslim might point to the Koran , and the Maori gonna be pointing to Ranginui , Papatūānuku , Tūmatauenga , Tāwhirimātea , Tāne-mahuta , Tangaroa , Rongo , Haumia-tiketike , Rehua , Ruaumoko , Hine-nui-te-pō , Punga , Ikatere , Tū-te-wehiwehi
      , Kaitangata and Māui . And thats before we start with all the rest of the Gods that other folks tried judging the character of , including characters of Gods that came long before ! and were later used by Christians to help form ideas included within the Christian holy bible itself ! .

      If you were born a Hindu or a Muslim you would be just as devoted that your cultures God was likely to be “the” real God . Just as the Exclusive Brethren and Rentons ,and West Bro Baptists and Mormon and Amish etc etc are devoted on the charismatic idea that their God is “the” real God .

      Yet here you come pointing to the Christian holy bible ? ….. “Book” of “words” of “thoughts” of “men” ? ?.

      What such an “objective” move about doing that ? . The fact its sold better than other books have ? like some movie sell better than other movies do ?. You know just kinda like Hollywood movie happen to sell better than Bollywood movie do ! . Ohh but the “God” said Hollywood movie is better right ? .. Decision was made by some kinda divine “objective” God judgement right ?.

      Im honestly glad for your response Feen . But its little different to the type of response i would expect from and Exclusive Brethren member or a West Bro Baptist or a Mormon or a Muslim or a Hindu .. You all point straight back to your charasmatic books and faith and beliefs …. And simply say … There look here see that !

      As if that proves you can know what the character of God is . And then we sit here wondering why people like West Bro Baptist or Exclusive Brethren or Renton Brethren or any other group become stagnant and stck fast where they be

      Thats why i keep trying to explain some crazy stalk bird didnt drop this “stagnation” off only at their cults door . Its always been right there among all you lot too ! . All all these other groups did , is just go and revamped the charasmatic devotional faith “stagnation” to meet their own personal preferred flavour . And then every faith group stands around sniping at each other ,trying to say ohh look those folk over there aint “real” Christian , they bad ! because blah blah blah .

      And its all because in all real truthful honesty there is no way to have “objective” type judgement , unless the God or Gods were to arrive on the scene and speak for themselves ! .

      Because without that ! … All we are left with, is you or the Mormon or the Hindu or the Maori etc etc etc , pointing towards your own “faith books” or traditional mythical tribal faith belief …. Saying this is what “the” God thinks …. L.O. L 🙂

      Dont you see how very circular this type of line of argument is ?. Its like a kid in a kindergarten trying to argue they drew the best picture , by pointing to their picture and saying . …. Look seeeee ! … there “it” is … Its “the” real master peice

      Not sure if i made what im talking about anymore clearer to understand . But hell folks have been trying to explain to charasmatic “devoted” folks for hundrens if not even thousands of years now . If it wasnt trying to get Baptists or Brethren or Talibani to see common sense , it was folks in our distant past who decided God wanted live Babies thrown into fires ! as sacrifice … before the God would ever be likely to care to provide more fertility … That people like me in those time tried to plead for some use of common sense ! instead of use of blind charasmatic devotion .

      Guess Rome wasnt built in a day huh Feen ? … Those witches that gone burned at the stake …probily thought the same kinda thing as their flesh scorched ! and fried ! and they finally stopped hurting as the passed away .

      You said …. “But after our long weird friendship I still wonder where you think the line should be drawn when it comes to peoples rights about what they can believe? Our beliefs might be outdated and might even seem silly to you and even tho I’d like to see you become a Believer I would never think of outlawing Atheism.”

      Can you point me to some atheist groups burning folks at stakes or forming groups like the exclusive brethren who seperate many families …. And no please dont point towards mentally ill tyrant leaders ! who just so happened to be non believers also as well as being mentally ill tyrant leaders.

      Because i suggest it was their mentally ill tyrancy , which caused their problems.

      If it was atheism that caused the problems …We would see many atheists starting to do what those mentally disturbed tyrant leaders did ….. But we see absolutely no such evidence …. And its just more faith deceit and propaganda

      But never the less im not at all interested in banning religion … If you theist feel happy about your theist guess work that makes so very many suffer and pay a great price ! for your right to such barbarric faith .

      Then it lays fully on your! concience as far as i can see Feen . You can sit back and feel great , and sing a few tunes in Church each sunday and throw in the odd “hallelujah” here and there for good sound bites . To make a couple of young convertees at your church grow in devotion and feel the charisma coming on ,….While you dream of your hope of eternal life! …And all this glorious glorious stuff ! …… while just maybe another-one bites the dust ! somewhere

      Why should i ban it Feen ?. If you feel happy with it …. Would good is it me trying to ban it ? … After all …. Its little different to the witch burnings or the live babies that once were thrown into fires in hope of receiving more fertility from God … Or little different to those that once were stoned to death

      What the use me banning it ?, if you theist feel its moral !

      Did we bother banning you lot from stoning people to death ? .

      Or did people just keep dieing! as they got stoned to death ! as they realized ohh well guess Rome wasnt built in a day , and things might change one day when the lovely wonderfully “moral” Christians kindly decided maybe its finally time it does .

      What do you think Feen ?

      Nice talking again anyway !…Been meaning to visit your blog again too sometime

      Later my friend !

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