To me . Sometimes religion seems reminiscent of the wayward child. Being dragged kicking and screaming. So detesting need to learn to live within the twentieth century .
The hardest part for someone like myself. Is trying to find ways of being bluntly honest with faithful folk about way’s we see them. Without getting their backs-up
For instance, plenty of ex exclusive brethren , and other interested non-eb people as well too. Won’t tend to see anything so-wrong with them talking about exclusive brethren matters, in a rather blunt manner. After all ,these folk are “outsider’s” . And so thus they will be able to see things from an “outsider’s point of view. And lets face it. Sometimes the exclusive brethren member’s wont much-enjoy hearing what they do hear being said about themselves. And yet , some things need to be said. And being all nambie-pambie about it . Wont tend to help matters change in any real great hurry.Will it ?
Yet if someone like myself . Feels we may see how the problem runs a whole lot deeper. Than just being about a problem created by the exclusive brethren group alone.Some of these folks just wont want to even hear it. Maybe because? they feel far-more comfortable, to be able to think and feel that the exclusive brethren are the “evil ones”. Or something
Thus why many faithful folk often seem to me like. Maybe they are all living locked-up within some sort of religiously self-induced coma or something like that. I mean there is already some scientific data that suggests many highly religious folk are found to be lacking analytic skill. I feel i see it. And sadly many times it doesn’t even seem to matter so-much whether they have been highly-educated.Or not.
Lets face it. Many faithful folk have goof educations. And yet as scientific studies point out, that these same educated theists still lacking in good analytic skills.
It almost seem kind of like religious-folks personal-connection to religious affiliation with other religious folk . Has the some same kind of effect on the way they go about life. As a doctor or lawyers affiliation also does too.Such as when affiliated doctors and lawyers don’t dare to be seen/heard speaking up against each other. And/Or may try to keep to practice-charges/billing-costs that their general affiliation has already agreed upon
Kind of like they all exist in some kind of “exclusive” club. Group-think rules. That damn sheeple-effect takes over .Whereby anyone seen/heard to be rocking the boat. Then tends to only get hated-on
So thus i cant help but wonder if maybe religion doesn’t in fact induce a kind of “religious induced coma” that inhibits these folks ability to think clearly.
These people wont like to hear negative things being said about them or their religious practices. In much the same-way that a Muslim extremist might also not much-enjoy even hearing the news that the act of blowing himself up. Wont likely help him any in reaching a goal of eternity,while being accompanied by 72 virgins.
People don’t like to hear (what they feel as) only-negative-things being said about that what they have banked so-much on. And yet if they were honestly so very-sure about themselves and/or their cherished beliefs. Then why the hell ? would it be likely to even bother them.
I choose not to join any ex eb forums. Simply because, i really don’t like to offend . And if i go onto these forums . I cant help but tend to offend other ex eb’s there. Mostly because i don’t see this problem, as being a problem that is centered within the exclusive brethren group alone . Which is what other’s there seem to feel it is. And thus my-own opinion tends to clash.
I’m beginning to think that the focus needs to be on the management of this group of Exclusive Brethren. Their tactic so often seems to be delay, deny and defend, and that isn’t helpful to anyone. There must be a better way forward.
It would make sense to set up an Audit and a Dialogue.
A thorough and properly conducted Audit of the abuse many people have suffered at the hands of members of this group of Exclusive Brethren is urgently needed. The Church of England is doing this and I’m sure that John Sentamu, the Archbishop of York, or a member of his staff, would be happy to meet Garth and discuss the merits of such a conciliatory approach.
Dialogue – I recall that Daniel Hales, the brother of Bruce D Hales, told the media (I think in 2008) that the Brethren “have dialogue” with other churches. It would only take a slight extension of that practice to set aside a day for a Dialogue meeting with people in the UK who have concerns about the Brethren. There are plenty of thoughtful people who have tried to negotiate with Garth Christie on an individual basis, but who have failed to make an impact. A properly conducted and well and independently chaired session, or two, attended by concerned people and Garth and the Brethren’s senior management team might help to begin to make some progress in addressing people’s legitimate concerns.
End quote .
Now first things first, please don’t get me wrong. On a personal level, i do like Joan. I do . I’m very thankful that someone like her is continually-interested in the problem of faith abuse. And i’m also totally impressed with the way she never ceases to get involved. We sure do need people like Joan.
But i cant help thinking that Joan still seems to see this ongoing-problem, as being an exclusive brethren-made problem alone . By that i mean that it seems to me that maybe Joan feels that maybe if the exclusive brethren only got their shit-together. And got involved in this audit and dialogue etc. The whole damn faith-abuse problem would be all gone. And thus would therefore cease to exist.
But the thing is this. While it might cure this exclusive brethren problem. We would still have quite a number of other closed-groups still around. Still quietly continually causing people harm.Via ongoing faith abuses
Its like these religious folk are locked into some kind of religiously self induced coma. That makes them want to continually skirt around the root of the problem. Poking fingers . And pointing, at certain groups they feel they like to try picking on. Or something
Meanwhile religion carry’s onward like the wayward child. Unregulated.
Joan’s answer. Leaves umpteen other people. Still living on under ongoing faith-abuses.
It may even take many-years. Generations yet. For the Joan-types to finally get these exclusive brethren to agree for themselves ,to submit to change. But its almost like the Joan-types have banked so-much on their beliefs in eternity. That they feel we faith-abused people , obviously thus must also all have all the time in the world to wait on such change to slowly come about.
Closed-group by closed-group. Slowly slowly
And that any other people still left living under faith abuses in other abusive groups. Surely cant have no good reason to feel any great need for hurry either.
Cause these people like the Joan-types .Seem to feel that religion should never be regulated . That people should have freedom of religion to be making all their own decisions on such matters.
I’ve seen an ex eb who goes by the name of Iain Gibb even cite this quote here in relation to regulation of religion . In a fear mongering manner. As if there is so much to be feared by humans adopting some form of regulation.
And yet the most stupid thing is this. Religion is already come under some form of regulation.
Can we ? burn people at the stake whom are accused of being a witch or of sorcery anymore . Can we ? still kill live human beings in the form of human-sacrifice ,in hope to gain better crops. As people once upon a time did . Is it ? legal for parent’s to refuse medical care for a child who has cancer, in choosing to rely totally on prayer instead.
And if these things have come under some-regulation . Has the sky suddenly fallen ? on anyone’s head yet. Because of it
The idea that regulation is something humans should need to really fear is stupid.
If there was indeed something that really-needed to be feared about regulation. Well surely we could just as easy apply Iain Gibbs analogy to many other things as well too.
Like maybe we could be fear mongering about the idea of regulation of car-speed limits too. Like,we might say . First they came to regulate speed limits. Next thing they came back to try regulate how often we farted as well too.
Yet the truth of the matter is this. Humans don’t usually tend to want to regulate things, for absolutely no good reason at all . Do they
The reason these theists don’t like the idea of coming under some form of regulation . Is because they are lot’s like wayward children. Kiddies who don’t wanna change . Even if it means that there will be people who will be forced into needing to continue to suffer onward and onward . Generation after generation even. Because of it
These theist just don’t care . Do ? they. For if they cared.Surely they might want to help bring about change. Instead of digging their toes in. Like so many do
And then when we see riots happening. These same pious-theists will sit there looking all prompt and proper-like . Saying .
“My my ..Doesn’t that prove our bible to be correct . Cant we see how evil this world is . Looky-over-there at all those “eeeevil”-people getting involved in those riots . See how they just don’t-care about any other people living around them . Tut tut !!
Go figure !
And then they run off into their pew-warming rolls again.Feeling righteous . And terribly-wonderful about themselves in thinking about how often they go to church. And what-not
Cause they sure don’t care to stop to think. That just maybe, their own actions/inaction , might also be somewhat contributing to the ongoing-problem at large.
Joan-types will often be heard to say how they put their faith in Jesus. Not man/humanity
Yet for some reason it seem to me awfully lot’s-like they have some pretty high expectations of man/humanity . Specially in being so-expecting of cults and exclusive brethren-type to want to change themselves. Because it seems they think that maybe these cult people, might just suddenly change their tune . And all start to decide to regulate themselves.
Little wonder Jesus got nailed to the cross. Obviously some theists didn’t think regulation was a really good idea, even way back then in those times either .
Little wonder it took so long for burning people at the stake to cease happening.Little wonder that before those times, some theists had even sacrificed live humans for many generations.The Joan-types would have been around way back then too . And the Iain Gibb types involved in their scare mongering .
I like the Joan/Iain-types .On a personal level. But i sure find their attitudes a little more harder to handle.
Our whole generation’s families live’s within exclusive brethren, was forced into needing to experience the horrid outcome of these ongoing faith-abuses .As did many other families too.
Simply because , many religious folk still wont see any good-sense in humans need of adopting a little more regulation of religious practices
And yet they sit there blaming the exclusive brethren for seeming to remain totally unwilling to adopt-change