It’s always interesting (for me) to watch theists discussion in regard to God and whether holy books are holy.
For instance, there is this thread here that is “still” ongoing (at this moment while im writing this) on wikipeebia. It’s always so good to see this kind of discussion “be able” to take place. Because too all often, any time that any of these particular kind of discussion do start-up, soon enough, they may also tend to quickly shut. Some theists get a dose of cold feet (through fear that it might be “a subject” that one really shouldn’t dwell-on and bother oneself with so-much) Someone, such as someone like our friend Fisherman (a very genuine “well-meaning” person) may “pipe-up” and say something kinda to this-effect “i really don’t feel like i need to split hairs over such details, i tend to keep my faith real simple, and say you can’t go far wrong from keeping to the Lords 10 commandments ”
Fisherman means well. And im sure many theist will also “mean-well” too , whenever they will also “actively” saying these sorts of things. They mean well. And i know that very-likely at least one reason why they will be saying these sorts of things, is that they are worried about what these kind of “in-depth” discussion may do to some other-peoples faith
So . There reason is very well meaning. They are concerned for other-folk
But what if their concern is wrong?. What ? if their concern is in-fact helping to cause harm unto other folk. By leading them astray by coaxing people to be making the wrong decision. Exactly the very same wrong type of “advice”, that right throughout the ages (generations past) have been constantly used to bamboozle people into learning to become fearful of questioning matters of faith.Specially when it concerns any books considered as being holy-books
Considered as being holy books
For holy books, can only be considered as being holy books. Because there is no “absolutely objective” way in which for us humans can say we know for sure 100% . We would need some-God to arrive on the scene,himself, to say to us “yes ,these are in fact my words”
What? if the bible isnt in fact word of God. While Christian folk have been coaxing people to decide to believe it is word of God. Then this? would need to mean that Christians are also guilty of teaching people to choose to believe lies. Lies that have helped to cause so much harm
Of course some theist will then say,well we do have a God whom has already been here to earth and had told humans this personally. He is Jesus
But theist forget that this in fact changes little. Because there are a number of other types of holy books around too, of other faith beliefs etc, and the-folk that actually believe those books to “be word of God” , will also make exactly the same kind of claim like Christians do
So the situation leaves all human belief within this subjective state. Often it depends mostly, on what? type of belief it is that your own parents and grandparents follow. Chances are that most children will adopt the faith of their kin
So human faith is subjective .
Which (to me) is also extra-interesting because (i feel) it means that what do theists mean, what the hell are they talking about, when we hear theist discuss the issue of “objective morals”
Theists love using this idea of “objective morals” like it some sort of “big gun” that they have for use on their side of the discussion. They say this shit (like this) to us atheist , they say as an atheist doesn’t have morals based on will of God , this then means that the atheist “becomes God” and as such the atheist can decide to do what ever they choose.
But hold on . Hold it right there . What’s? to say that the theists didn’t just do that very same thing anyway. Maybe? theist-humans from times past , decided what it would be that they wanted to accept as being moral , and then simply went ahead and took it further and just started claiming that it was in fact God whom had made these decisions
Theist.Now. Do you? begin to see where im coming from . Do you see why theist can tend to make themselves seem like pure faithful idiots, by being stupid enough to be heard making these kind of silly claim.
You folk rattle on about “objective morals” . You folk love to bash atheist over the head with this sort of rubbish. And in doing so, you have also inadvertently helped to accuse atheists of something that you-folk yourself cannot honestly claim to do any differently
Like atheist , your moral belief is built on things like philosophy . Philosophy can exist without religion. However religion is lost and worthless,if it were ever to try to even exist without philosophy
Morals are built on things like “trial and error” and “philosophy” (Social science). Both theists and atheists alike
Even your own holy books still remain as a written historic record of such practices in action . Check out your holy books. See the historic record of moral evolution in action. Moral evolution where by human opinion changed (evolved) over time of generations past from practices like bloodshed of human sacrifice and stoning children to death for talking-back to parents, to these more modern times when such practices are no longer considered to be moral .
Humans decide. Even claiming it was God, still changing nothing at all .Simply because it is still Humans, whom then still need to even decide who they think God actually is
So humans will still need to be the ones whom will need to decide anyway
So see? what complete deluded bigoted morons that theist can tend to help make themselves look, when trying to use “objective moral” as a battering ram to help enforce faith
How ? much harm have you folk helped to cause . How many atheists im the USA, have been forced to need to suffer, due to traditional bigotry of theist folk
Do you know.Sometimes an atheist such as myself, sure as hell wish there really might be some kind of “afterlife” . Cause it sure as hell dont feel (to us atheist) like we have lived within any kind of real-justice
We were born among Christians. And so then when the majority of our family decide also to remain Christian, guess what, we atheists are shunned and are looked down upon. Our lives are automatically run within the theist-rule.Even though we may leave from within the exclusive brethren cult, the cult of Christianity still continue to try to dominate and rule-over us. We will still be penalized , whenever we choose to do things that the Christian folk choose not to do
Christianity is actively involved in religious tyranny. Both inside and outside cults, the only difference is in regard to the degree of religious tyranny that is put to use .
Christian folk are so deluded, that they still scratch their heads when trying to understand why the new atheist are so angry, if the atheist dont happen to believe in God
This is how bloody ignorant , theism, can help to make a theist become. Theism seem to carpentalize their method of thought . They lose the ability to think outside the square . Their method of reasoning goes a bit like this
1 Human is lost and angry without God
2 Atheist are angry
3 Therefore atheist are angry with god
They far prefer to believe that atheists are angry at God. For they hate to believe that atheist might ever have real good reason to be extremely angry at theists , for the harm that theists have continued to cause to atheist folk
So . So much for justice . So much for moral
And so then. what makes this situation even so much worse ? . What help to cement this sad nasty situation within perpetual motion of time . What? helps this problem continue on
“Well meaning” Christian folk. The simple Christian . Those folk whom have been taught, to help teach others folk not to also not bother splitting hairs . Not to question or reason to deeply in regards to matters of faith
Put bluntly. It’s the blind that are helping to lead the blind
And meanwhile we (atheist) will still continue to be forced to pay the price of this bogotry and ignorance
And while Ian Mckay has already decided that it is only the extremist theist whom are helping to cause anyone such harm . Meanwhile it is the liberal Christian folk whom will mostly just stand by in silence taking no action and are thus guilty of allowing it to continue happening
Ian is a highly educated man. But Ian is a theist educated man. As such , Ian is also a man whom is more inclined to want to sugar coat liberal religion.Seems to me Ian will do all he can to try and find some way to totally free liberal religion of any responsibility
This help to enable this problem to continue to exist
Those bad bad cults.Evidently. Rule over the whole world they do. Few stragglers of cults, are those people whom can set the destination for us all
As if liberal folk are playing no part in this continuing situation at all
Imagine if criminal law was being run in the same manner that religion is being run. Well meaning moral liberal folks would just stand back on the side line and would no no more than to continually sling insults at all the rapists, saying see how jolly bad those rapists are.See how they are so unthoughtful and choose to rape people, when they could have decided not to
Few would bother to consider the moral , of the way they themselves are not even bothered to take action to actually help stop it
Far easier. To sling insults at bad folk. And far more “religiously” pleasing for the religious “head swelling” of “liberals” to boot
Someone will pipe up and say. No one is ever caused any real harm within the Catholic Church. Obviously these people have not even bother to care to research it. For had they cared to bother, “google” can be used to soon find plenty of evidence to prove that the Catholic Church has indeed also caused a number of people harm. The main difference being, the “degree” of harm that this particular group might have caused
Theist love to figure that governments should not ever be involved in regulation of religion. Reason being about how religious liberty is highly important.
We atheists ask .If religious liberty is so highly important. And regulation shouldn’t ever be involved within religion. So that folks are free to believe whatever they choose
Seems rather strange? that religion has any need to have thousands of domination just within Christianity alone .Folks are so liberated, that they found need to need to be separated-off into loads and loads of slightly different separate groups. Within those separate groups, the have set rules and regulations
Meanwhile theist blissfully condition themselves to believe that they are religiously liberated
Easily done. If you simply first decide exactly what it is that you would wish to be able to believe, and then make you conclusion/faith up to suit (and don’t dare bother splitting too many hairs)
Done and dusted
Besides . If governments should never get involved in regulation of religion. And if the theists faith is grounded in reason ,then how come? governments are actively involved in regulating the liberty of Christians whom would like to choose to entirely rely on prayer, to heal their own children of cancer
Christian. Drop the bullshit. Religious liberty obviously doesn’t even exist. Look around about you. Think about the way atheist have become so hated and despised within the USA, this is “religious liberation”
Liberation for? whom . Liberation ? for control freaks
All us ex eb deserve to suffer the harm of this false sense of liberty, that has been built of false foundation . We suffer along with all ex members of all the other many abusive religious groups that still exist worldwide (2016)
For indeed.People should ? be ready to also reap of that what was allowed to be sown
Evidently.Jesus himself had tried to help change aspects of religious tyranny. Jesus believed that there was indeed need for some aspects of regulation within religion.
Or what else ? explains Matthew 21:12 , John 2:15