When Did It All Go Wrong

On Wikipeebia , other ex eb are busy with discussing the subject “when did the exclusive brethren go wrong”

See here http://wikipeebia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1058


So lets gets first things first. This question would seem to imply, that at some particular point in time, things were in fact “right” rather than wrong.

As Ian helped to point out


The question “When did the Exclusive Brethren go wrong?” implies that a church can be either right or wrong, but it fails to recognise that all churches are actually something in between.


end quote


This question is mighty important one. Because lets face it. if the situation were in fact already-wrong , way long before the brethren-groups had even very first begun to form.This thought would then also help to explain, why there were also multiple other schism and divisions that happened within the Christian spectrum

Then this? also then means that all the eb are also in fact just become “some victims” of a problem that is far more widespread .There are a number of other groups as well too (even within Christianity and offshoots of Christianity) that have also “fallen victim” to this very same problem

Therefore the problem that is “wrong” is also “wrong” on a more widespread level

And so there is no real use in trying to demonize any particular “brethren” groups for that. After all , the brethren are by no mean “totally alone” in regards to schisms and problems with division and sectarianism

After all said and done.Sectarianism still ranges from the very worst of it, down through levels that people consider somewhat less harmful.

Living life in regard to matters of religious liberty. Is a little bit like we are forced into playing a game of Religious Russian roulette. Your parents get to spin the bullet chamber, and will help pull the trigger in regard to definition of your “religious culture” and/or “religious liberty”

Brother Rev , another ex eb that often comments on wikipeebia seem content with getting busy beating up on people that still exist within the brethren groups. Exactly what ? does he hope he will achieve

Even if Brother Rev were suddenly able to convince the Renton eb group that they were wrong. What ? the hell will that help to ever help stop all the many other “wrong groups” from continuing like they do

On this wikipeebia thread Brother Rev has this to say

Quote : 

The “but no church is perfect” defence is simply not a defence at all and no excuse for staying within such a deeply defective system.


end quote

Brother Rev has totally missed the point.

  1. The system is in fact “defective” at a far deeper level. (which then help to explain why there are multiple other groups of “ex members” too whom are also being forced to need to live like we ex eb folk do)
  2. To claim that there is no defense for anyone whom chooses to remain within domineering groups . Is a misguided thought, that would seem to remain ignorant of some rather realistic costs of leaving   (ignorant of even plain evidence like this for instance http://wikipeebia.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=14 )



Brother Rev conclusion is misguided to say the least. Is never the less built on foundations of extreme injustice. Built upon foundations of what is impossible for all people to ever hope to achieve


Brother Rev should have known this. Brother Rev should already be very well aware of how impossible it is for all (ex members) to survive

For Brother Rev to declare that there is no defense . Is ignorance. Is an in justice. And is a bloody disgrace. Church folk really ought to know better. If only they could also all first learn how to put their religious bias aside

Where was Brother Rev ? , at the very moment when all these folk were living in dire need http://wikipeebia.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=14

You say that there is? no defense  that other cult members (by now) seem to remain a little wary, to want to fallow suit

The problem is that people like Brother Rev , are not-keen to admit that this problem is more widespread than what so many Church-folk would ever care to admit

In this regards , there are many mainstream church folk too whom are (like what the eb are also like as well too) also not so keen to ever need to accept their own part they have helped to play in what is actually wrong

We dont have any right to our own religious freedom. Because in most instances, our religious belief will be “shaped” into what our parents and our parent religious culture has also been shaped within as well too

Our religious liberty. Doesn’t ever exist in any positive type of sense.At very best, our religious liberty is of a negative liberty type

An example of the differences between “positive” verses a “negative” form of liberty. You can look ay this you tube video below


You can see that there is quite a big difference.

We only have right to our religious liberty within the negative sense. It depends a whole lot upon the luck of nature of our life . For it depends a whole lot on luck of whom out parents are, and what there families choice religion was culturally

You notice how i purposely struck out the word “choice”. I did so , because we must do this.If we are able to be completely honest about matters of life. Because fact is , that choice of religion is pre-determined and bound up within family ties within religious cultures

If the nature of our life is , that forefathers of our societies have allowed for the right of “parents within their religious cultures” to be able to dominate over our lives in regards to our right to religious freedom

Then this is a form of negative freedom.

Poking fingers at the renton Brethren Group, and/or the exclusive brethren group . Still wont help to fix the issue that allowed the problem

But few church folk really care to actually fix that problem . Why ? . Because they like having the situation the way it is . They enjoy having the right to dominate over the life of other folk around them . Like “rights and choices” of their own children (for instance)

They like to be able to do so. Without any fear

This is the root of this problem. Folks are being forced into accepting faith beliefs. They are forced to need to do so , or else they will experience punishments

Loads of church folks worldwide are more than willing to just turn a blind eye to this issue . Because they really don’t mind if the status quo remains the same

This is the root of this problem. This also helped to explain why it is, that we only ever see, so very few non-eb christians , or non ex-cult members , caring to step-up and help us to take action

They don’t care that we don’t have any positive type right to religious liberty

Cause they don’t see religious liberty within the positive sense, as a good preference for themselves . Because religion partly rely on the right to still remain overbearing enough so as to still be able to coerce people

Religion might soon begin to disappear. Should religious liberty ever be able to become religious liberty within any totally positive sense

Religious tyranny continue existing underneath the subtle disguise of negative liberty

This is a subject that certain people like Brother Rev or Ian Mckay may far prefer to side-step . May far prefer to choose to not to ever discuss in depth

Because this is the elephant in the room.This situation lays at the root of the nature of life as we presently know it

Those faithful folks want to demand to have their own freedom. While they may also demand to still retain right to be able to dominate over freedom of religion of some other folk living around them

So its like they making demands for themselves to be able to have it both ways


As if that is ever going to be any real answer . Unless it is? only themselves that they think really ever matters so much

Should both the renton and exclusive brethren groups both choose to change their ways by tomorrow. Should theses groups drop their hatred towards ex eb members of family

How does? this help out so many other folk , whom will still continue to experience, the unjust nature of life living under negative forms of religious liberty

We all deserve to live our lives without contact with our eb family. So long as religious liberty only really exist in a false negative sense

We must expect the possibility we may be someone who is forced to reap of what were allowed to be sown

A big part of it come down to pot-luck. In this regard, human religious liberty is instilled via aspects of religious cultural domination, rather than via any honest form of human free choice





The fisherman has this to say

Quote : 

However I do feel strongly that we were never called to walk alone and need Christian fellowship,not just for ourselves,but to support others

end quote

Evidently Christians would see some real need, for themselves to need to feel very alone in life. Unless they can also find some way in which to exist within the confines of some Christian club

There lay the very root of the problem. These people feel alone, unless they can surround themselves within some sort of echo chamber of people whom only think the much the same way as each other. Anything less than that , can make someone begin to feel lonely


Yet quite likely, that these folk will also still wonder too, about reason why there may need to be so much schism and divisions

They figure. If only our whole world, could be like one big huge echo chamber, full of people whom would only ever think to all agree with each other

Then nobody would ever have any need, to have need to feel alone

Its like they kind of wish for a good recipe for disaster . I mean to say …. How likely is it ? , that enough folks can gather together, and always agree on everything

Folks are bound to disagree.

So why the need ? to feel any loneliness, within that fact

Fisherman has just allowed himself to have grown so well accustomed to existing within the confines of the cult Christianity

He now feel alone. Unless he can still find some way in which to sooth his religious addiction

Religious folk have built up their walls all around themselves. They now have the Christian flavored groups. The Islamic groups. Then there is Hindu groups in some countries as well too. And so on. Trouble still exist in every instance

We still have a number of ongoing wars that are also connected as well

Yet evidently.This kind of phenomena,still allows for the religious folk to some how feel far less alone in life

In that sense, then maybe Howard Hughe’s was also a “little less alone” in his life too. For indeed he found a way to also be able to shut himself away, from need of too-much of any day to day company of any other people in life , The people with whom he may feel like he tend to “differ” from

But why? do people choose to build these kind of walls around themselves, rather than tearing the walls down so as to try to make way for more room for bridges , instead of walls

Like Fisherman, the members of the exclusive brethren ,will also tend to begin to feel very alone in their life.Yes they will do. If they ever felt like they might need to try and feel comfortable with living out among us people , us people whom happen to think sopmewhat-differently to how they feel they do do

Sad fact

All manner of cult-like lifestyles will tend to create people whom will learn how to harbor this type of feeling .The feeling “im all alone ” in my life ,unless im also able to be living among people of a very similar style of thought

They stubbornly refuse to accept differences. Therefore they also have opened up the door for continuing schism and conflict

Sadly it doesn’t help these matters much either. While we still have so many folks, whom stubbornly continue to lay the claim that “their” holy books are is “word of god”

They leave themselves so much less room, for hope of decent honest co existence 

This bigoted attitude, is the precursor of exactly the same bigoted attitude which would also flow-on to help to form all the brethren movements too

We may expect ? to possibly need to also reap of that what were so freely allowed to be sown

I think so. Chance are , as luck has it with the nature of our lives (as it exists) , that some of us are bound to experience the very most nasty aspects of this situation


About ExEB

I'm a agnostic/atheist . Interested in learning more about science. I also am an "ex-member" of a group most publicly known within modern times, as the Exclusive Brethren. Whom are an off-shoot of the original Plymouth Brethren group. I'd say it likely my personality could possibly be described as quirky.You know ,as in being , unconventional , unorthodox , unusual, off-centre, strange, bizarre, weird, peculiar, odd, freakish, outlandish, offbeat, out of the ordinary, bohemian, alternative, zany I'm sure iv'e been classed as "crazy" . Many times But then, being born into a group like the exclusive brethren. Doesn't lend itself ? to tend to produce things considered as being "very normal" .Does it I escaped the Exclusive Brethren cult as a 15 year old teenager. Even since that time iv'e been trying to adjust to living life outside the cult. With much of my life being lived within the genre of "wild colonial boy" style. In the general sense of a church-rebel picking and choosing from role models who appeared within-life along the way. But as the exclusive brethren cult had traditionally maintained a general church-rule , of need to shun and totally excommunicate any ex member of their group.Treating such people as if they were dead. Thus this situation developed more to do with my need of following traditionally enforced church-rule , as apposed to it being so much about "life-choices". Certain emotional experiences, and parts of life in general, have led to me adopting a sense of low self esteem. Which is a situation i still deal with from time to time. Through my ongoing interest in science. I find i am able to gather more information to help me better understand my situation. Much about life for me, has often seemed like a massive puzzle.With many missing pieces.
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