Ian posted the excellent ted talk origin version of this video .See here http://wikipeebia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1328
Below is the you tube copy, for people who are unable to watch the original ted-talk copy
I like the idea that Ian’s proposed.Engaging in respectful dialogue with those that we disagree with, would be the goal. However the situation within this video describes a respectful dialogue that was able to take place between a cult member and a member within the general public (IE: someone non-affected)
It might have not been half as easy, or likely to even be able to occur, had the dialogue instead tried to happen between a Westboro baptist cult member and a ex Westboro baptist
I’d say that respectful dialogue is likely to already happen now and then (even though it might still not happen half as much as it should be happening) between members of the exclusive brethren and non-affected members of the general public
The thing is, the person (who would some day end up becoming the husband of the ex Westboro baptist girl) within the video . More than likely had also been able to live a relatively happy normal life. A happy normal life that would still also continue in this relatively happy manner in future as well too, no matter the outcome of the dialogue .
This makes all the difference to people’s ability “for respectful” dialogue (something that perhaps Ian might have some trouble with understanding himself too,specially if in fact Ian’s life could perhaps also be described as having luckily been a relatively more-normal life?. I don’t know the answer to this,i’m just pointing-out that it does indeed help make a fairly big difference)
Sadly the same thing cannot be said in regard to situation of dialogue that happen between many cult member an the ex cult member
This point is important. An i hope that Ian doesn’t disregard this, as if it wont matter one bit. The truth is that it makes all the difference.The situation cannot be compared as like its a one size fits everyone, type situation
Trying to compare respectful dialogue able to happen (fairly easily) between a member of the general pubic (IE: somebody relatively unaffected personally) and a cult member ,with dialog that might sometimes occur between cult members an ex cult members (two groups whom are both effected very personally) might be kind of like trying to compare chalk with cheese?
However this video raises a relative point. Why are there not more members of the general public bothering to take an active interest ? . These are the people that are in best position to be able to have sway .
More importantly !!
Where are the so called “real” christian ? .The mainstream religious folk living normal lives within “religious groups of non abuse”. These people are supposedly supposed to be the leading light within our society. These are the non-affected folk (people who’s live have not been ripped apart and ruined) who therefore are also luckily able to possess a cool calm attitude with which to use to help change the mind of the people living within abuse
They are “lucky” folk
Luck has it that they were not born within any cult (and there are a number of these cults that exist that they might have otherwise been born within, had their own-luck been different)
Birthright comes down to luck.It’s merely luck that will allow that one person will be born as an American or Englishman or Australian or Newzealander, while another person may be born Libyan or Zimbabwean or within some other “disadvantage”
Birthright involves luck
Human lives should “not be ruled” by luck. (for this reason today folks are not born into slavery anymore,in the same way women are no longer supposed to be facing sexism anymore either.This is moral and fair)
Yet these (mainstream religious) folk silently stand behind the scene (living within a state of indifference), leaving the job at hand all up to the extremely hurt ex cult member, to try to do ? . Leaving it up to ex cult members to try and defend themselves from the grip of harm and hurt
I ask myself. Really is this what their Jesus would also do ?
If Jesus were to return to this earth today. Then most of all, i would most certainly not ever want to be found existing among groups of those mainstream religious folk.
Among those great pretenders (Matthew 23)
Those mainstream people “hold the key” to help fix this problem fast. Yet don’t care to bother.
Because this cult problem doesn’t effect their own lives personally?.
Meanwhile our governments still allow their mainstream group to still be able to receive charity status
Those mainstream christian folk act about as uncharitably as can possibly be
Shame on them
They live out their lives within a mainstream bubble of indifference in regard to the lives of other people whom are still being forced to need to continually suffer due to the continued existence of these cults and religious abusive groups
In year 2017 ?
The mainstream Christian church groups of today is a farce. They may dress up in their fancy clothes and may publicly weld all their gold and glitter . And gather together in droves (so as to help make themselves “look so” very superior)and while gathered together there, they may also all busily “talk the talk”
And yet its still good for little more than window dressing (Matthew 23)
Quote Ian McKay Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:55 am
“I know a very patient lady who uses direct email, letters and face-to-face conversation with current EB members, usually by introducing a non-threatening topic that might be expected to interest them, such as the history and transmission of biblical texts, the archaeology of the Holy Land, the history of the Brethren movement, the biography of early leaders, and so on.”
end quote (my bold)
The lady (i figure) Ian speaks of, is non eb. Was never an eb. Has never ever experienced shunning and loss of her own family, through religion.Has never been disowned or had her family photo’s wiped-out from sight, as if she were considered already dead (like what brethren will actively do to family members they disown and shun) Her own children will have also been likely to have had free access to love of grandparents and family members. In other words she and her loved ones will have been able to have “led normal happy lives together”
Naturally this lady also has ability to feel patient as well too .Has an ability to react civilly. For she also does not need to see possibility for happy family life, quickly “fading away” and disappearing over the horizon (like what cult members and ex members are forced to deal with)
The more important question is
Why is Joan (an Anglican) acting alone in what she does (discussing matters with eb)?. Why are there not a whole lot more other Christian folk from mainstream church backgrounds also caring to get actively involved as well too ?
This is what needs to be looked into
Does a person need to stave to death “first” (Food famine or earthquake disaster)before mainstream Christian will care to finally decide to step up to the mark an start to act so as to offer their own help and support ?
That’s a hopeless situation (so little wonder cult people will lack patience )
Loss of decent family relationship’s is evidently not considered enough of a loss ? (people staving loss of normal loving family relationships)
Shame on these people !
They are comparable to the same thoughtless kind of folk like what Jesus had vividly described within the parable of the good Samaritan.Those uncaring people who while feeling “so superior” (about themselves)had still far preferred to just walk on by and leave the problem “up to someone else” to deal-with.
If hell actually exist. Then i sure wouldn’t want to be any of these mainstream christian folk (the great pretenders) ?.
More than anyone else (even atheist),it will be these people (of God) who will be the greatest embarrassment to Jesus (folk who followed regular ritual of going to church so as to help pretend to be the real caring honestly decent earthly folk)
At the end of the day, it will more than likely be humanist non-believers who will end up being the people to “actively help” fix this problem with faith abuses (folk who don’t believe in judgment day, but yet can more-easily feel empathy for fellow humans) . Think about that for a minute ?
And an even greater embarrassment to Jesus .Most believers are so caught-up within their feelings (wallowing) of superiority, for their ritual-acts of going to church(wallowing in their involvement in acts of “ass licking” Jesus).
That they then easily overlook their own foolishness
Christianity (of the ritualistic church going kind) has become like a huge throng of swooning butt licker’s club .Bunch of “brown noser’s for Jesus” (These fanfare elaborate type ceremonies are of course also ripe for easily adopting as business money making enterprises. Which is more or less also what modern Christianity has developed into. The head honcho’s all reap the biggest benefit)
Jesus would need to feel totally embarrassed to the max (because his large throng of fans will care to take prompt action in butt-licking while also happily disregarding ongoing faith abuses that also still surround them) ?
These days most church goers have become so drunk and caught-up within their own constant swooning and their own idolized glorified actions of ritual aspects of modern-day church life.
That they now also wouldn’t even be able to know any better
The youth are perhaps the best hope there is left for our future. Today the youth are the people whom are now most busily disassociating themselves from any participation in these traditional butt licking church rituals
Thank God for that ? (or perhaps thank existence of good