Holocaust Survivors: The Search for Faith

Quote:

BOB ABERNETHY: One of the consequences of the Holocaust was its effect on the faith of observant Jews. How could a just God have permitted such a tragedy? Today, the personal story in his words, of Menachem Daum, a New York television producer, whose parents were both Holocaust survivors. Daum has explored these issues of faith with survivors including his aged father.

Mr. MENACHEM DAUM: A Hasidic master once said, “A God who limits himself to actions that we humans can understand couldn’t possibly be God.” Essentially, that was my father’s approach to the crisis of faith raised by the Holocaust.

However, that was not the approach taken by my mother. On my mother’s tombstone, we inscribed that she endured much suffering. This was our way of asking God to forgive her sins. In effect, we were saying she already suffered enough for them in this world.

However, I don’t think my mother felt the strong need for God’s forgiveness. On the contrary, she told me when she’s called before God in final judgment, she will turn the tables. She will demand to know why he stood by silently during the Holocaust as her large family was being destroyed.

 

 

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/2001/08/03/august-3-2001-holocaust-survivors-the-search-

 

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Quote:

Heshel Reissman describes trying to maintain faith during the Holocaust

 

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Two interesting stories of survival.Very sad .Both of them.They had to contend with reality.

Perhaps ex eb’s experience something similar.Like some will feel  God has provided and blessed them.Others wont

In the first story

Ms. DORA LEFKOWITZ said

Quote:

I cannot see a God who will allow a little baby to be killed for no reason at all. And I really lost my belief then, right there and then. I had one sister and two brothers. I was the oldest and the only survivor of my family. Why? What did they do so terrible that they had to perish? I think if God is so great and so powerful, he could have struck Hitler down before he killed so many Jews. That’s my feeling.

end quote (my bold)

Think of how many people in cults.The leaders. How it would be no trouble,for God, to take some kind of action.Any action.Even if it were only to the extent, so as to make things begin to fail for them cults (IE:prevent the believer from being/feeling blessed), like even perhaps make the cults businesses ventures begin to fail, therefore talking unto their ongoing acts of unrighteousness (like what holy books, will even in fact, describe as actually happening, in times past) .

Even as a young child, i also used to ponder and wonder why.Where was any positive sign of God?.Shit was happening all around us.All the time.Loads of real heartbreaking stuff (even if not anywhere near as bad as Holocaust survivors) too.And then to think that what we have observed ourselves, of this kind of thing, is really only like a small grain of sand,too,when compared to the full collateral amount of immense suffering throughout time.Universally worldwide.Right down throughout the ages. Like what Holocaust survivors had experienced

I’ts not hard to put two and two together, i feel, and begin to figure why, the people of ancient times, might have then devised these intricate stories, so as to try and help explain, reasons why the Gods wouldn’t be observed to be active within our world (IE: due to human sin etc).So as to create ways to help God be able to be seen, by us, as not being the being who’s responsible for any part in the situation.It also goes some way to explain why the other historians of ancient times,too,also didn’t ever write about any supernatural occurrences themselves either. The only people,whom ever wrote about observing action of Gods, was people also directly involved (followers)in types of faith groups themselves too.While the other historians, wrote about, their observation of the people whom were the ones actively involved in these faith groups

Imagine the amount of generally nice people, that supposedly could in effect end up being judged.For crime of not seeing reason for faith.For failing to faithfully believe faith books.It all makes little sense to me. And yet religion membership is remain strong,and perhaps because these faiths are just like what any other phobia is also like.Can be hard to shake. Therefore these extreme situations, are more inclined to force people to start to ponder deeply .While a believer may begin to lose their faith before rescue,in this highly emotional situation.The former non believer, might also suddenly, through emotion, begin to see their own rescue (or feeling of being blessed) as being like sign that God was active.I remember, that during the eb brethren review,that suddenly happen out of the blue after years of no contact with eb family.I had become overwhelmed by feelings of deep emotion, of being able to have contact, and i wanted to believe in God.I always had wanted to.Even in youth.I had always tried to observe sign of God acting. But alas, the truth for reason why the eb Hales Hitler styled Brethren review had happened , soon become obvious,as i soon heard whispers about how it was likely to be more about brethren themselves acting so as to try to quickly create a better image for the brethren group.As around that same time, ive be told, there was also damming TV documentary’s hanging in the wind. That might have been soon shown on TVs universally worldwide.

And evidently,supposedly, Gods away on business?.He might of taken action.But decided there was no need,or perhaps thought it wasn’t good? .Nobody knows.Many faithful don’t allow it to bother them either.Many are lucky, and maybe don’t need to experience faith abuse themselves,to such level

Another interesting thing is the conflict that also arise, when two or more people end up at different conclusions. Like: while the believer will naturally far prefer not to need to hear the atheist point of view, perhaps because, to hear it, is unsettling . On the other hand, perhaps the atheist is feeling like there is very valid and mighty important reason, to  need to be discussing it, which can also feel unsettling too (to the atheists point of view), to not proceed to do so ( because the atheist doesn’t want to sound disrespectful of the theists).Because we experienced bad things, because there’s only so few believers who’d care to actually take action to help stop faith abuses themselves, as they are convinced, that God will can act himself, if in fact he feels he should act

 

That there, in itself, is a somewhat interesting, conflict of interest, of what will have developed.Right?

The sad part is. If faith abuse wasn’t so freely able to cause unlucky people harm. Like if religion was regulated so no extreme harm was considered legal.Then most atheist wouldn’t feel the same level of interest, to need to, discuss .As religion could be considered benign. Its the bullshit part, of pretense of real freedom of religion/religious liberty part, of what in fact, moves to cause the need for atheist to speak out. In hope that influential people, like the Pope for instance, might wake up , and take action,to help

But it doesnt happen?. The year 2018 now, still there is few believers rallying for action to happen?. What conclusion can we make of that phenomena ?. Do they just far prefer to be able to retain the situation of negative religious liberty (religious freedom) . The kind of freedom what requires luck. We need to be one of the lucky ones, whom are not born within aspects of religious tyranny?. Or one of the lucky ones to be smart enough (IE: not sheeple enough), to not fall into the traps of abusive faith groups?

It seems, to me, to be evil of the most highest degree, that faith safety , would still be left up to aspects of luck ,even now,in this year 2018

That can seem mighty heartless and terribly uncaring ?

Consider this. What if more human had of been atheists, at the time when Hitler was rising and beginning to harm and kill so many. Might the worlds population, then have felt a little more like an atheist naturally is inclined to do, like i also do, in regard of our natural-feeling, that the only real way to start helping all of ourselves more within our world. Is in fact for us all to learn to take more responsibility for acting ourselves ?

Might we then have taken prompt action far earlier ?.Might we have been able to also have helped save the lives of so many more nice Jewish people as well?

Its important for us human to become more mindfully aware. To become more responsible in so many ways. To realize how interconnected ,so many things within our world really are. To be mindful, that even vast oceans are not good as security against extremism 

Heartbreaking, even now, to think (mirror neuron) perhaps we human, might have, been able to have done more,ourselves, to help prevent the Holocaust experience ?. If only we’d all been more mindful

We might have been a better more thoughtful friend to Jewish people, and even German people, and a load of others as well too (if only we had accepted our own responsibility to try to not live like sheep)

When humans learn to be mindful .Less unlike sheep.By taking accepting our own responsibility to become more aware in regard of every aspect of our lives.Perhaps we can then,even begin to help all of ourselves, to not lead ourselves toward situations ,of what might even help to cause wars ?. To perhaps not need to have as much harms caused by racism,sexism,capitalism,materialism and even environmental harms like the hell fires that presently really harm our friends in overseas countries extremely bad ,all kind of social dysfunctions and disharmony and so much else?. Even mindfully aware gun regulation laws perhaps too? (IE less needless deaths =mindful awareness of interconnection)

We cannot expect world peace, unless we learned to all accept our own part in responsibility. There will be no peace, so long as we have non Muslim intent of laying all blame on Muslims. And vice versa also .We must all join together as humans?. Help fill the gaps that help cause us division?.The gaps that allow extremism to find its own small piece, of fertile ground,in which to then fester, and persist

I have a dream

Can we perhaps all begin to help spread  more Aroha universally worldwide ?. Maybe once we take a responsible part, in helping to heal the world, through inter-connectivity of this kind of action, it may then also begin to help heal all of ourselves,a little more, as well too?

About ExEB

I'm a agnostic/atheist . Interested in learning more about science. I also am an "ex-member" of a group most publicly known within modern times, as the Exclusive Brethren. Whom are an off-shoot of the original Plymouth Brethren group. I'd say it likely my personality could possibly be described as quirky.You know ,as in being , unconventional , unorthodox , unusual, off-centre, strange, bizarre, weird, peculiar, odd, freakish, outlandish, offbeat, out of the ordinary, bohemian, alternative, zany I'm sure iv'e been classed as "crazy" . Many times But then, being born into a group like the exclusive brethren. Doesn't lend itself ? to tend to produce things considered as being "very normal" .Does it I escaped the Exclusive Brethren cult as a 15 year old teenager. Even since that time iv'e been trying to adjust to living life outside the cult. With much of my life being lived within the genre of "wild colonial boy" style. In the general sense of a church-rebel picking and choosing from role models who appeared within-life along the way. But as the exclusive brethren cult had traditionally maintained a general church-rule , of need to shun and totally excommunicate any ex member of their group.Treating such people as if they were dead. Thus this situation developed more to do with my need of following traditionally enforced church-rule , as apposed to it being so much about "life-choices". Certain emotional experiences, and parts of life in general, have led to me adopting a sense of low self esteem. Which is a situation i still deal with from time to time. Through my ongoing interest in science. I find i am able to gather more information to help me better understand my situation. Much about life for me, has often seemed like a massive puzzle.With many missing pieces.
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