John Fysh
Health/Safety, Quality & Environmental Management professional incl. Expert witness services in Australia & New Zealand.
Gisborne & Hawkes Bay, New Zealand
Management Consulting
Rmf Consulting has offices in both
New Zealand (Head Office) & Australia
Expert witness in Health & Safety
https://nz.linkedin.com/in/john-fysh-a1990763
About ExEB
I'm a agnostic/atheist . Interested in learning more about science. I also am an "ex-member" of a group most publicly known within modern times, as the Exclusive Brethren. Whom are an off-shoot of the original Plymouth Brethren group.
I'd say it likely my personality could possibly be described as quirky.You know ,as in being , unconventional , unorthodox , unusual, off-centre, strange, bizarre, weird, peculiar, odd, freakish, outlandish, offbeat, out of the ordinary, bohemian, alternative, zany
I'm sure iv'e been classed as "crazy" . Many times
But then, being born into a group like the exclusive brethren. Doesn't lend itself ? to tend to produce things considered as being "very normal" .Does it
I escaped the Exclusive Brethren cult as a 15 year old teenager. Even since that time iv'e been trying to adjust to living life outside the cult. With much of my life being lived within the genre of "wild colonial boy" style. In the general sense of a church-rebel picking and choosing from role models who appeared within-life along the way.
But as the exclusive brethren cult had traditionally maintained a general church-rule , of need to shun and totally excommunicate any ex member of their group.Treating such people as if they were dead. Thus this situation developed more to do with my need of following traditionally enforced church-rule , as apposed to it being so much about "life-choices".
Certain emotional experiences, and parts of life in general, have led to me adopting a sense of low self esteem. Which is a situation i still deal with from time to time.
Through my ongoing interest in science. I find i am able to gather more information to help me better understand my situation.
Much about life for me, has often seemed like a massive puzzle.With many missing pieces.
Ex Exclusive Brethren Agnostic/Atheists thoughts 
John FYSH? This does not appear to be a son of Geoff Fysh, and definitely no a son of Graham Fysh. They had an elder brother who I presume is no longer alive and was not in the peebs, so is this his son? This person is a Kiwi or ??? What is the point of your post?
Peter F
Hi Peter . Is this a brother ?.I don’t know.Does anyone know. Im interested to find out anything if anyone would know is all. If we presume there was an elder brother who now wont be alive.Will anyone know about this. Just interested.Human health and safety is certainly always a mighty important consideration anyway. Helps to save peoples lives
Son of the eldest Fysh who l met 1980s. Never a peeb … father or son. I communicated with him LinkedIn. Nice fellow who comoletely escaped the cult.
Thanks for your comments Peter.Its a riddle.Hard to know whats what?. Extremely sad to think how many people have been hurt.The hurt flows on to then hurt their loved ones around them as well too. Hurt can be so bad it can alter the peoples personality. Even children outside of brethren or other high control groups, are affected as well. Perhaps even within epigenetic level. Somewhat similar situation are shared by holocaust survivor too. All the very best wishes to you Peter and all other ex eb and others.Pass it on for me please
I went from peeb to Freemasons 1982.1993; divorced 1990; new partner 1990.2012 4 step children baptised and confirmed Roman Catholic 1996; separated 2011; new partner 2012 Methodist helped me unhook …not what we believe but how we live; eucharist quartley not central or weekly; bible a series of messages in stories both OT and NT and nut literal; took a step back rekaxed and all ok; one rule love your neighbour as yourself.
Oh well, i figure you’ll have a broad mind then Peter?. Thing i feel im only just learning about life. Life struggles might be tough going.Might seem to much to deal with sometimes. But funny thing that it help broaden our mind to better under others who struggle as well too. Had we not struggled enough ourselves, we would have more trouble to understand others who do. Do you think so?
I feel glad you still found someone to love and to keep you company. That’s wonderful
Yes. The RC Bishop told me lw8ukd nake a good RC … enduring guilt, superstition, no sense of self worth the only difference is that conscience is respected!
The guilt really hangs around and it takes a lot to assess them as evil and still not throw everything out. Very hard to stand back. It took me exactly 30 years but l hung in there. Now we may go to Anglican Mass at Easter and Xmas. Life is about the 2 of us Jill is 69 and l am 75, and then family when it fits in with us.l am happier and more relaxed than ever and no guilt.
Haaaaaa . Sorry just sounds like a Bishop with a sense of humour.I like that. Life requires us to try to retain a sense of humour i feel.
Quote: “one rule love your neighbour as yourself”
I’d totally missed some things you’d written yesterday. Not sure why. Didn’t see all what you’d wrote until today when copy of comments arrived in my email inbox. I’m no expert at understanding how these blog work. Totally agree with this comment of yours above what i’ve quoted in this reply .I try to live by this rule too myself.
You really made my day a “far better” day yesterday. Really did. Lifted my emotion to a way better place. Thanks so much Peter
You are atheist or agnostic. By choice based on a fair review and analysis of whatever, but how deep? It is your choice and not necessarily binding. Roger Stott said I was destined Christian and he Pagan and that was fixed. I was never a Christian whilst a Peeb but that was a post peeb process. Possibly too scared to become such a free thinker – maybe hell was real and maybe the peebs were right — an experience of many. Freemasons helped as they insist of you accepting a higher power whoever and a volume of the scared law whatever. RCs helped with a more relaxed and more real experience than the Peebs and 2 years studying their theology. Then a masters in religion studying the first 3 centuries AD and last 3 to sort out the shit. I accepted by faith the Lords Prayer which Darby rejected and the Nicaean/apostles Creed and have stuck to that. Very settled and comfortable and believe in the existence of God and His provision and protection. Very simply uncluttered belief.
Hello Peter.Nice hearing from you again.Great time to talk with someone as i haven’t been well of late.For one thing one of my non eb nieces and her daughter were in a bad road accident 3 days back. Likely lived due to airbags.And a few other things what interconnect with luck of the draw of being and eb and so on
I’ve finally worked out today, where i’d been going wrong, with regard to seeing the complete comment of yours.So hopefully i can now try to do your comments proper justice. Thanks for reminding me of Rodger.I’d enjoyed discussion with Rodger.I learned things.Personally i feel agnostic or atheist are still atheists. One feels they can be sure. I’m not that way to any great degree.But for myself i dont feel i can say i see conclusive evidence that a-God might exist.Not to sound nasty, but same way i cant say ive seen conclusive evidence that something like bigfoot might exist either.Is that offending you if i put it like that?.I dont mean to offend, Me being me, not educated in schools, i simply cannot think of a better/nicer way to put it
Personally i feel i see sign that fear is a powerful driving force behind faith in a-God. Well,seems many times anyway.To my mind, if a God be something we would have need to have great fear of, that would then make me question why we would choose to then proceed to still worship this God then.Can you understand me?. Like if i know someone that there is good reason to fear, in my life here on earth, because of them being some mighty powerful bully. I’m not someone who’d follow them.Certainly wouldn’t want to worship them even if it would mean i’d end up being tortured. Does that make sense?
Human were willing to follow Hitlers commands. Mainly due to fear. self preservation was perhaps their driving force, for doing so?
This brings me to consider that maybe its not the big deal that human made it out to be anyway. But then perhaps there is no way to extract “cash” from out of hard working peoples pockets, unless there be someway to make it seem like it need be a big deal.
Im enjoying to listen to the philosophers thoughts. Like the ones within the videos ive been posting of late.They are not easy going to listen through. Many times i’ll need to wind them back, to re-listen to. My brain injury PTSD causing me to be slow to think.I need time to mull things over thoroughly.
My belief are not binding. I like to remain open minded. But haven’t done so well always admittedly.
I still enjoy reading what believers write/post.I feel that’s perhaps a bonus with having forum public.But of course the flip side of this is that some people feel triggered. Its natural. triggering happen on both sides though. Sometimes i wonder if ex eb might be better to see it as a way to help themselves push boundary. To help break away from the non negotiable teaching that many of us were faced with in time of our youth. I feel i notice how the older people, like Ian McKay, and Fisherman too, and others, seem a little (or a lot) more forgiving of different views.Sadly i feel these problem we have haven’t made it ant easier for us to create good relationship with our offspring. But then i cant know how other eb have done in this regard.So i wouldn’t want to stereotype either
They talk about finding the silver lining.Im wondering if i might be starting to see a silver lining to our own experiences.I feel perhaps it is “struggles” of what we deal with ourselves, that then can help us broaden our own mind, to then have better chance to understand others attitudes, of who might have struggled even more than what we did.
I feel like you are an interesting person with a broad mind and loads of knowledge to learn thing from.
One thing ive been wondering about Christendom.With the state of the environment. If a God exist. Why do i not see church hierarchy cautioning congregation members way more.Just a question. Not wanting to sound judgmental.Want to point that out as i feel it can be so easy to be misunderstood
If people are happy and settled with their faith. Im ok with that. I will stand up for the believers right to still be heard too.I figure the believer stands by the rule like ive quoted in my comment to you earlier today. We all need each other. Us human can easily forget that. It take many different people to make our world go round. Cheers Peter
What is your background socially, economically and educationally? I fought against all odds to become the me, but I have now become very laid back and relaxed about my faith and hold religious systems as just that – systems. I simply look at happenings that defy and explanation and say God. Things that have happened in my life, both good and bad, and coincidences don’t explain it and I reject the peeb explanations of ’causes’. I also reject luck as the answer. I am a very simple person. I am academic in my approach and analysis and have taught in unis at masters level for 1992 to 2012 and I think some depth analysis helps but you hold the results in a flexible way. Things happen and view change. According to Genesis we are responsible to hold things responsibly – resources, fauna, people, the environment etc., but there are so many unscientific theories postured as they suit hidden agendas I read, listen and don’t reach a conclusion. My current/last wife is a highly qualified and educated nurse and mental/forensic health professional and we discuss a lot and don’t influence each other. Religions have agendas and if they suit my philosophy at the time, I listen, if not I file or junk them. So life goes on for another day 🙂 . I have cut the wood, I am doing some tax returns, my wife is cleaning some kennels and shifting some dogs, we both go to the doctor later, we decide what I will get for tea, we decide what TV program we will watch together as we do 90% of everything together, I will feed the 15 large dogs tonight and she fill feed the 18 puppies and 12 smaller dogs. We will go to bed, I will get up at 5AM, get her coffee and toast at 830am and start another day. She will spend time on westobri.com stuff and I on biztaxsolutions.com.au stuff. One day it will end and hopefully at similar times for both of us as neither of us look forward to loneliness as I was lonely until 2012 and she had a tough time at the end with her husband with cancer.
I was correct in my feeling about you Peter.I sensed you are this person like what you describe.Lot of thing you wrote down i feel i have in common with you.So many , right now im not sure where to start. Except for,perhaps i have accepted the loneliness.I kind of became a bit like my friend.During solitary moments alone ive reverted to thinking. And to research best im able to online. I rather to research interesting subject i feel ican learn from,rather than to watch TV. I was bullied right throughout school. Had no siblings at school, as siblings are all 10+ elder than myself.I were held back a year in primary school. Teachers would strap me for not being great at spelling and so on.I left school halfway through 4 grade highschool. Because of reason how i’d been shut up, with our mum, and priest were doing regular visit to put us both through interrogation of what i’d describe as being little like Nazi SS officer interrogation session . It was mid term holiday, just mum and myself at home as my sibling had all flown the coop already. Our mum were constantly in tears. Tears that flowed like water while she’d sit a knit. I couldn’t deal with “seeing” it any longer. One day i jumped on my push bike about mid day, and biked to a vegetable shop of what i knew were sister and brother and law of my ex eb sister and her husband. They phoned my sister who came right away to pick me up. Later i phoned the police , a.s.a.p . To have him phone and tell our mum. I did it this way as i thought they might then help to console our mum.Its not how i’d have liked for things to happen. But i couldn’t see any other option. I were 15 and a half years old at that time. At first they threaten to call police and have me returned. Which was possibly within their right to do. But being that i’d experience sex abuse of what had been swept under the carpet. I can only guess they might have been to fearful to try.
Im self taught. Jack of a number of trade, and told that i do a great job.But im someone who’d prefer to undersell myself. Keep my feet well grounded.
Im a conservationist. Have struggled to look after a piece of NZ that’s bush regrowth and has many native species. Neighboring farmers have attempted to get this land off of me, to turn into stock farming land as it would carry a cow per ache. But money has never been my main concern in life. People have asked to burn off the scrub too,like they always had used to do previously every 5 year before i came along.So they could then have easy access to shoot at any deer and pigs. But my mind is steadfast in conserving the scrub because there are loads of fern birds and so on of what also make it their own home?. Today manuka is now become a little worthwhile.So hey, i’m glad how ive retained it.People have ceased to scorn and laugh at me
I totally like simple people who are academic. Cannot think of any better
I don’t know quite what else to say.To tell my story, to be honest i don’t quite know where to start. Haaaa .But within 6 months of my leaving the eb i found myself living as a station hand , way up the wop wops, on a large sheep and cattle station.It offered me a job and fee accommodation with the cook supplied for single farm workers. And well i was also out of my families hair, that way too, hee hee. Too messed up for my family to understand at the time, i can see now. Perhaps still so too. Im still a work in progress. Perhaps the best way to describe me
Your relationship with your wife sounds wonderful. Sorry if ive missed anything what you’d like to know? .. Cheers
Married and kids? Expeebs marrying expeebs doesn’t guarantee anything. First marriage as 21 snd 19 year olds in 1966. 5 kids in 5 years eldest now 52. When l got the boot l gave them the best education chance l could as none of my kids were going to endure what l had to. Once the peeb lifestyle is removed you become real people and in our case it is 2 who would never have married so it fails.
The peeb damage is often fatal and sincpe people have nowhere to go and no reference points so it is chaos in evety aspect. I feel very sorry for those who have lost everything. In our case it was like taking the cork out of the bottle. New cars, private schools, holiday homes, farm, overseas holidays but we still drew apart. I did a masters sold my practice, left the marriage, changed location and started teaching and earning in a year less that l used to earn in a year. Like starting again in life.
Evening Peter
Never married. Only sibling never married. Not that im against marriage. I’d say im a little jealous that i didn’t make it happen. Not sure jealous is correct word. As im happy for my siblings experiencing being married. I have two sons who are half brothers. Im not going to bother to pretend i was what a decent father should be. But im pleased i didn’t act violent or anything like that.I feel i never learned what a parent should be like?. I wasnt a drunk or anything. I traveled away to work to save something. To try and provide some sort of future. Trouble with that was , i then wasn’t around to keep in touch with the children enough.The attachment scenario wasn’t something that i even knew anything about. And of course, when one parent isn’t as good as what a parent should need to be like, this is then why close family kinship still comes in handy. As within kinship, usually there is still family who can help to make up for our own inabilities. You know what i mean?. Sadly even first nation people are struggling themselves ,with their own ability to reform family kinship that can serve in the way what ive described . Do you think so Peter?.
But these days like i said, i’m now trying to see some sort of silver lining to mistakes what ive made. Trying to see how if i hadn’t made these kind of mistake, well then i wouldn’t have thought to think about it as much either. That being so, perhaps i might not have thought to consider the plight of others, like First Nation people . And so on
I cant change the past. I was very lonely. Perhaps hooked up with ladies who were wanting different things to me. Or were not compatible might be a more better way to say it. There again ,kinship is also supposed to help stem feeling of loneliness as well too?. Now i try to use my own experience , of making boo boo’s , to learn how i might perhaps be able to find some way, to make sort sort of amends myself, by perhaps helping to change situation in future, for others. Even doing that is a huge struggle. None of my family are so keen on sharing involvement themselves. Most of them consider me to be a dreamer. I was always that way though, even had once dreamed of a happy stable family too. Tried my best to try and help make it happen. So anyway, to cut long stories short, i’m like a one man band .. Haaaaa . And certainly not anywhere near perfect by any means.
Married and kids? Expeebs marrying expeebs doesn’t guarantee anything. First marriage as 21 snd 19 year olds in 1966. 5 kids in 10 years eldest now 52. When l got the boot l gave them the best education chance l could as none of my kids were going to endure what l had to. Once the peeb lifestyle is removed you become real people and in our case it is 2 who would never have married so it fails.
The peeb damage is often fatal and sincpe people have nowhere to go and no reference points so it is chaos in evety aspect. I feel very sorry for those who have lost everything. In our case it was like taking the cork out of the bottle. New cars, private schools, holiday homes, farm, overseas holidays but we still drew apart. I did a masters sold my practice, left the marriage, changed location and started teaching and earning in a year less that l used to earn in a year. Like starting again in life.
Oh feel free Peter to comment anytime you feel like it.Even if it be criticism.Its all good.I feel criticism is healthy.Sorry in advance for bad prose and so on. Cheers
Son of the eldest Fysh who l met 1980s. Never a peeb … father or son. I communicated with him LinkedIn. Nice fellow who comoletely escapedj the cult.