John Lennox: Where is God in a Coronavirus world?

 

Great discussion . I enjoyed this video. Good to see John involved in continuing the discussion. Its a discussion of what human “cannot afford” to dismiss. From whatever angle you’d look at it 


Interesting for me to note how John Lennox is able to stand back, so as to ask himself “every other question”, except for to ask himself the particular question as to whether all this, might in fact be telling us all, that perhaps there might be “no God”, in existence, after all

Although admittedly,maybe i might be very wrong in thinking that. I might be, being biased. But ,its just my view, of the way what i feel i see it

I also note that John speaks of cancers, pandemic & earthquake and tsunami and so on, where it seems as if human are not necessarily involved at all, and John speaks of them as being natural pain. That there’d “be a fracture” in nature 

I feel that John Lennon seems to have a great way to help complicate the questions, so as to create a way so as to make them become “way more complicated” than what they’d ever had any need to really be. Mind you, the human way doing this, is also been what “lay at the foundation” of peoples continued belief in Gods.

They’ll ask every other question. Create all manner of other highly convoluted scenario and fanciful ideas of what might then serve so as to try and help offer “some sort of answer”, in a long tedious “around about” way. And in doing so, will have also totally overlooked the glaring elephant in the room. The high possibility, that “plainly” there might in fact just “be no God” anywhere in existence 

Its as if that plain simple possibility would never be good enough for minds of these type people to even dare to consider, for even a “short moment” . As to dare to face it, might then mean that they’d also then have reason to need to go back to the drawing board, again, so as to “reconsider everything” from top to bottom, all over again

That possibility could seem frightening

Generation after generation, human have been faced head on with this elephant in the room. And yet, rather than “see” the elephant, they’ll feel for more at ease to create all other kind of fanciful ideas, of what will serve better so as to help “soothe their emotion”

I feel that that’s the problem

Meanwhile, they are then also not planning, with long term strategy in mind either, to become ready to face” a Godless environment”.

They simply don’t bother to plan for it

And yet, time and time against they still be face head on with all these stark reality. That get highlighted in these troublesome moments, of like the one what happening right now. . Even although, they’ll then just proceed to re-create and cling-to the usual fanciful ideas, again, of what still serve so as to help them to still be able to overlook these blatant reality

That’s how i see it, anyway (my opinion)

And of course someone like John Lennox pops up again every time these situation occur, to help provide “the believers” with another taste of that same familiar “sweet tasting lollipop“, exactly like the one what they’d all still been constantly craving for

Works like a treat , again and again, every time

Human are addicted to the belief that there’d need to be “some God” what watches over them. Who’d be there , for them, so as to be able to act “as a backstop

For the alternative world view, would be “unbearable” to dare to consider.The human would be forced to “grow up” and to act more like adults. To then have need to begin to plan with “longer term strategy in mind” too

Terribly tedious highly responsible way to need to be

In other word’s to also need to finally accept responsibility that they’d then in fact have full responsibility to plan to take complete care of themselves . In every way

Not hard to begin to see why religion has been described as being like “the opium of the people

Is it?

After all, its only natural that it feels nicer to thin k that there’d be some higher authority, who’d be able to be there, to care for human who’ll often find it far to tedious to need to always take care, for themselves

What better, than to “live in hope, and hope” that someone else is taking care of the ultimate worries, for the-human

Believers may spent half their lives proposing the idea that “belief in God” can somehow be something so as to help “protect” the believer,and to make them “become safer” within their day to day live than what the unbelievers are

Then when pandemic occur of what helps to expose the question of like what would serve to completely blow this whole idea right out of the water

Rather than consider the question head on

What happends?

Someone like John Lennox suddenly pops up,to rather to propose the “more fanciful convoluted idea” within the idea that perhaps these thing would have need to occur in this way that they do, so as to remind the believer, and unbeliever, to remember to look within, so as to make sure that they’d have “all repented” 

In other words, the God would even allow that even those who’d already have repented, will need to still face the same suffering involved in “a pandemic”   themselves still too, so that even-more human might then finally be forced into repentance, themselves then as well

 

The situation, to my view, would seem to be similar to ways of a ruthless human dictator. The way they’ll be prepared to punish the whole group of human, time and time over and over again, until such time as there’d finally be “absolutely nobody left”, who’d ever dare to misbehave .

And only then, would the-supreme powerful beings “ego” be able to feel “for filled”, quite enough 

Being that every time that  anyone (within the group) even dares to misbehave, then the punishment will be metered-out in a way so “that everyone” within the group would all need to suffer the consequence 

Right?

To the theist, like John Lennox, this “kind of fanciful conclusion” would seem more likely?.

More likely, or so it seems, than it would be like for John to simply need to consider the “completely simply idea” that perhaps things are random after all, and that there’d be no-God

And besides, there is also no money-flow and/or potential for fame and fortune, in it in future times ahead for John Lennox, anymore, would he dare to re-consider his worldview

Would there be?

Lets face it

You really don’t often see so many Benny Hinn styled celebrity type atheist-guru, do you, running their atheist styled cults, where by they’d also have free access to cash-flow , due to atheist tithe  

Do you?

 

Because.The atheist worldview is generally not necessarily “tasteful”. Its kind of like its “a bitter pill” for human to choose to swallow.Naturally its not the humans preferred choice. Is it?. As it doesn’t offer the human the option to think that strategy of long term planning, could ever be something of like what they’d then be able to afford to overlook, so much anymore (being that a-God, could usually be “left in charge” of long term planning strategy, for the humans)

The atheist worldview is simply “no where near as” addictive 

Is it?

To much like “a stark fearful reality”

Millions of people will buy books written by people like John Lennox. They will. The books sell like hot cakes. Because, the book will help create a fanciful convoluted story line, that will also then be in line with the kind of ideas of like what they’ll crave to be able to see a  way to believe to be true

Anyone else who’d write books “with story line” that propose the situation to be basically random. That propose that long term planning strategy would be completely responsibility of the-human . And that human shouldn’t rely on the idea that there’d be some God who watches over them

That type of book , isn’t in-line with the kind of ideas of like what the majority of human “would still prefer to” believe 

They wont sell 

Be bound to be kind of like “trying to sell a batch of” rock cakes or shit sandwiches . Or hard boiled “rotten egg” salad  

It doesn’t surprise me one bit, to see someone like John Lennox, would quickly step up to take full advantage of this pandemic. As quick as is possible too. So as to be within “the first books” being made available.Because, its also the perfect situation whats presented itself, to “sell” a story-line of like what million and million of human will also be waiting to hear . Its eactly what the masses addiction will be craving for, specially so too at this present moment in time right now

Your book, would basically have a guaranteed audience . Even a smallish cheap book could still have plenty of potential to “create a fairly decent” money-flow

Its one situation where by the suffering/loss of so-many, may also help to present potential gain.

And according to believer, this is also all still completely in keeping with the-God’s, plan.

When we not see this plan as looking to make much sense. Someone like John Lennox might propose the “Gods mind” is something kind of hard for the human to fully comprehend. And that the God works in mysterious ways

And yet

The believer, like John Lennox, will still find a way for themselves to easily feel completely confident with their own conclusion. As if they’d need to be acting like as if they’d have easy way to know the mind of God. Being that they’d be able to be proposing these fanciful explanation  

When i see this happen. I ask myself. Which way is it then?. Can human know mind of God. Or not? . Or can it be said that man can have way to know mind of god, only whenever it may suitable to suit the story line being proposed

Its a “flip flop philosophy”. Now you see it. Now you don’t. Now you can see. Now you cannot .There is little consistency in the claim. The claim constantly changes about, like the wind. Similar to like how we note the-cult rules and regulations will also do-so as well too. Flip flop flip flop “to suit each any every” particular situation of what presents itself

In this way you can make pretty much anything, seem to be like it “might fit” (perfectly)

John Lennox mention the idea that God couldn’t create a world that were perfect. As this would mean that there’d then be able to be “no love” within such a world as this, either.

So the question is, will heaven” therefore still  have need to remain  fairly similar to the way how things are here on earth, then too?

Surely if the perfect world is impossible on earth. Then it will need to remain impossible in heaven. So that the experience of “love” might then still exist

Does suffering have need to still also exist “in heaven” as well too?

So that human would still experience love

Like the philosophy that John Lennox proposed

Or is it going to become yet another flip flop type philosophy too?

And if heaven will still have need to have pain and suffering, so that love could be able to be experienced

Then why does the God then also go and chose to make imperfection, have need to become such a problem of like whats then deemed to be about sin

Its like it doesn’t seem to really make much sense

While its correct to say that the bible might have described the idea of the fall. So as to also help to provide us with some sort of fanciful explanations. So that we might then still find a way to understand phenomena’s of nature, in connection with a way for us also be able to retain a faith in God

Its still seem way to far fetched 

Doesn’t it?

And the fanciful story line itself means that we’d then have to create fanciful ideas of what then also have need to “become way more complex” than what they’d otherwise have needed to be (Occam’s Razor), were the human to instead simply face the prospect that perhaps a God doesn’t even exist, after all, and that therefore the-human are alone and totally responsible to take action so as to care for themselves, as best they can

Until we face up to this possibility. Chances are that we will also remain unprepared for situation of like what this one with the pandemic is right now

Huge part of the reason why humanity has been caught off gaurd. Directly relates back to the way in which majority of human have also “remained convinced in the fanciful idea” ,that a-God might exist, of who’s then also able to be there, for to be watching out over the safety and needs of the human. So as to not allow that anything entirely totally devastatingly bad, “could ever be able to” happen

In other word, God is being-thought to act as the human safety-net

I hate to say it

I doubt it will be what the human would want to hear being said

But

This is a dangerous way for human to remain

Human will continue to meet with these devastating events, like what the pandemic can be, of what they’ll remain totally unprepared for to meet with

Until they’d learn to accept full responsibility for themselves 

To learn to live as if they’d be entirely alone. Without some God who’d be constantly acting as “their overseer” or “their foreman”

Only then will the human have finally learned how to accept full responsibility for all aspect of “long term planning strategies” as well then too

As it stands right now. We human, have been living our lives, as if most of us would be of the mind, that there’d always be the-God, out there, who’s acting as the foreman. 

We expect the this foreman will step in at any moment in time, should “the God see” that the earths-situation were beginning to be getting way to far out of hand

This is the way, we presently have been attended to the “long term planning” strategies 

Correct?

Our longer term “planning strategy”,are pretty much been allowed to be non existent

Why so?

Well.So that greed can then also be allowed to still maintain main focus 

They want us all to “grow confident”, in the fanciful idea, that there’d be a God who’d always be around so as to be able to be acting as our foreman 

They don’t like the idea that the human would become like responsible adult human. With minds of their own,that they’d all learn how, to use

They don’t want that

That would have to much potential to become like the “anti-christ to the element of greed” that still continue to exist in our world

It would ?

Wouldn’t it

So therefore why

They’d far rather to still maintain a decent sized flock of sheep 

Sheep are easy to manage.Sheeple minded people, they’ll follow the leader. Even if the leader might even be “trained” for position of being used, so to act like the “Judas goat” . To help lead the rest of the flock of sheep, toward the slaughter 

Greedy people generally don’t care. Their own ability to gain great wealth, is about all that they’ll be bothered to be focused on most

If anything. Perhaps it would be this, that these pandemic would in fact be very timely happening of what really might be best to be making us all learn to consider and become aware of

Because, unless we do

Then who knows ?

Perhaps the idea of “the last days” , of what has been talked about, and been Prophet-sized about for generation after generation

Might sudden come into fruition . Even if it would be  within a whole different  sense of the words

Considering

It could very well develop into the form of being yet another mass extinction

It wont be the first mass extinction that’s taken place here on earth

These pandemic are presently helping to make us more aware of just how interconnected we all are.

And , the pollution of the seas and water ways and so on, the waste of resources,  are also able to be doing likewise too. Even without a God, nature would still have a way to teach the human “some lessons” in their lives

Teaches the humans some lesson, even whether they’d choose to learn from them lessons, or not

Prayer wont serve to stop it from occurring either. This is also “a lesson” in itself

John Lennox is is also allowing his own bias to take hold of him, in my view. With the way what he proposes “moral dilemma” , should belief in God not exist

Consider this question

Lets think about the  Pirahã  people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirah%C3%A3_people

Within John Lennox worldview. John would need to be deeming the  Pirahã  people to need to be “lawless and immoral “

Being that they’d evolved without a belief in a God

In my view. i feel that John is allowing himself to still be misled by bias 

He also act so as to devalue all the unbeliever’s natural sense of moral value 

Moral codes, are little different to the humans road codes,and building code and health and safety codes are also like

Since when did God “have need” to advise human on how to go about developing their road codes?

We all have natural ways in which to devise a type of objective value to decision we’d make

The believer might then comment. Yes but, how can you explain the fact that generally speaking, human moral worldwide, can be noted to be all comparatively similar 

My answer would be, if the “human brains” what are useed in the process of “thinking”, are all  comparatively similar also as well to  

Then we have reason to feel far more surprised should we have noted there to be extremely vast differences, in moral code

Its through “natural occurrence” that all human minds would evolve fairly similar conclusion, sooner or later

About ExEB

I'm a agnostic/atheist . Interested in learning more about science. I also am an "ex-member" of a group most publicly known within modern times, as the Exclusive Brethren. Whom are an off-shoot of the original Plymouth Brethren group. I'd say it likely my personality could possibly be described as quirky.You know ,as in being , unconventional , unorthodox , unusual, off-centre, strange, bizarre, weird, peculiar, odd, freakish, outlandish, offbeat, out of the ordinary, bohemian, alternative, zany I'm sure iv'e been classed as "crazy" . Many times But then, being born into a group like the exclusive brethren. Doesn't lend itself ? to tend to produce things considered as being "very normal" .Does it I escaped the Exclusive Brethren cult as a 15 year old teenager. Even since that time iv'e been trying to adjust to living life outside the cult. With much of my life being lived within the genre of "wild colonial boy" style. In the general sense of a church-rebel picking and choosing from role models who appeared within-life along the way. But as the exclusive brethren cult had traditionally maintained a general church-rule , of need to shun and totally excommunicate any ex member of their group.Treating such people as if they were dead. Thus this situation developed more to do with my need of following traditionally enforced church-rule , as apposed to it being so much about "life-choices". Certain emotional experiences, and parts of life in general, have led to me adopting a sense of low self esteem. Which is a situation i still deal with from time to time. Through my ongoing interest in science. I find i am able to gather more information to help me better understand my situation. Much about life for me, has often seemed like a massive puzzle.With many missing pieces.
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