Great discussion . I enjoyed this video. Good to see John involved in continuing the discussion. Its a discussion of what human “cannot afford” to dismiss. From whatever angle you’d look at it
Interesting for me to note how John Lennox is able to stand back, so as to ask himself “every other question”, except for to ask himself the particular question as to whether all this, might in fact be telling us all, that perhaps there might be “no God”, in existence, after all
Although admittedly,maybe i might be very wrong in thinking that. I might be, being biased. But ,its just my view, of the way what i feel i see it
I also note that John speaks of cancers, pandemic & earthquake and tsunami and so on, where it seems as if human are not necessarily involved at all, and John speaks of them as being natural pain. That there’d “be a fracture” in nature
I feel that John Lennon seems to have a great way to help complicate the questions, so as to create a way so as to make them become “way more complicated” than what they’d ever had any need to really be. Mind you, the human way doing this, is also been what “lay at the foundation” of peoples continued belief in Gods.
They’ll ask every other question. Create all manner of other highly convoluted scenario and fanciful ideas of what might then serve so as to try and help offer “some sort of answer”, in a long tedious “around about” way. And in doing so, will have also totally overlooked the glaring elephant in the room. The high possibility, that “plainly” there might in fact just “be no God” anywhere in existence
Its as if that plain simple possibility would never be good enough for minds of these type people to even dare to consider, for even a “short moment” . As to dare to face it, might then mean that they’d also then have reason to need to go back to the drawing board, again, so as to “reconsider everything” from top to bottom, all over again
That possibility could seem frightening
Generation after generation, human have been faced head on with this elephant in the room. And yet, rather than “see” the elephant, they’ll feel for more at ease to create all other kind of fanciful ideas, of what will serve better so as to help “soothe their emotion”
I feel that that’s the problem
Meanwhile, they are then also not planning, with long term strategy in mind either, to become ready to face” a Godless environment”.
They simply don’t bother to plan for it
And yet, time and time against they still be face head on with all these stark reality. That get highlighted in these troublesome moments, of like the one what happening right now. . Even although, they’ll then just proceed to re-create and cling-to the usual fanciful ideas, again, of what still serve so as to help them to still be able to overlook these blatant reality
That’s how i see it, anyway (my opinion)
And of course someone like John Lennox pops up again every time these situation occur, to help provide “the believers” with another taste of that same familiar “sweet tasting lollipop“, exactly like the one what they’d all still been constantly craving for
Works like a treat , again and again, every time
Human are addicted to the belief that there’d need to be “some God” what watches over them. Who’d be there , for them, so as to be able to act “as a backstop
For the alternative world view, would be “unbearable” to dare to consider.The human would be forced to “grow up” and to act more like adults. To then have need to begin to plan with “longer term strategy in mind” too
Terribly tedious highly responsible way to need to be
In other word’s to also need to finally accept responsibility that they’d then in fact have full responsibility to plan to take complete care of themselves . In every way
Not hard to begin to see why religion has been described as being like “the opium of the people“
After all, its only natural that it feels nicer to thin k that there’d be some higher authority, who’d be able to be there, to care for human who’ll often find it far to tedious to need to always take care, for themselves
What better, than to “live in hope, and hope” that someone else is taking care of the ultimate worries, for the-human
Believers may spent half their lives proposing the idea that “belief in God” can somehow be something so as to help “protect” the believer,and to make them “become safer” within their day to day live than what the unbelievers are
Then when pandemic occur of what helps to expose the question of like what would serve to completely blow this whole idea right out of the water
Rather than consider the question head on
Someone like John Lennox suddenly pops up,to rather to propose the “more fanciful convoluted idea” within the idea that perhaps these thing would have need to occur in this way that they do, so as to remind the believer, and unbeliever, to remember to look within, so as to make sure that they’d have “all repented”
In other words, the God would even allow that even those who’d already have repented, will need to still face the same suffering involved in “a pandemic” themselves still too, so that even-more human might then finally be forced into repentance, themselves then as well
The situation, to my view, would seem to be similar to ways of a ruthless human dictator. The way they’ll be prepared to punish the whole group of human, time and time over and over again, until such time as there’d finally be “absolutely nobody left”, who’d ever dare to misbehave .
And only then, would the-supreme powerful beings “ego” be able to feel “for filled”, quite enough
Being that every time that anyone (within the group) even dares to misbehave, then the punishment will be metered-out in a way so “that everyone” within the group would all need to suffer the consequence
To the theist, like John Lennox, this “kind of fanciful conclusion” would seem more likely?.
More likely, or so it seems, than it would be like for John to simply need to consider the “completely simply idea” that perhaps things are random after all, and that there’d be no-God
And besides, there is also no money-flow and/or potential for fame and fortune, in it in future times ahead for John Lennox, anymore, would he dare to re-consider his worldview
Would there be?
Lets face it
You really don’t often see so many Benny Hinn styled celebrity type atheist-guru, do you, running their atheist styled cults, where by they’d also have free access to cash-flow , due to atheist tithe
Because.The atheist worldview is generally not necessarily “tasteful”. Its kind of like its “a bitter pill” for human to choose to swallow.Naturally its not the humans preferred choice. Is it?. As it doesn’t offer the human the option to think that strategy of long term planning, could ever be something of like what they’d then be able to afford to overlook, so much anymore (being that a-God, could usually be “left in charge” of long term planning strategy, for the humans)
The atheist worldview is simply “no where near as” addictive
To much like “a stark fearful reality”
Millions of people will buy books written by people like John Lennox. They will. The books sell like hot cakes. Because, the book will help create a fanciful convoluted story line, that will also then be in line with the kind of ideas of like what they’ll crave to be able to see a way to believe to be true
Anyone else who’d write books “with story line” that propose the situation to be basically random. That propose that long term planning strategy would be completely responsibility of the-human . And that human shouldn’t rely on the idea that there’d be some God who watches over them
That type of book , isn’t in-line with the kind of ideas of like what the majority of human “would still prefer to” believe
They wont sell
Be bound to be kind of like “trying to sell a batch of” rock cakes or shit sandwiches . Or hard boiled “rotten egg” salad
It doesn’t surprise me one bit, to see someone like John Lennox, would quickly step up to take full advantage of this pandemic. As quick as is possible too. So as to be within “the first books” being made available.Because, its also the perfect situation whats presented itself, to “sell” a story-line of like what million and million of human will also be waiting to hear . Its eactly what the masses addiction will be craving for, specially so too at this present moment in time right now
Your book, would basically have a guaranteed audience . Even a smallish cheap book could still have plenty of potential to “create a fairly decent” money-flow
Its one situation where by the suffering/loss of so-many, may also help to present potential gain.
And according to believer, this is also all still completely in keeping with the-God’s, plan.
When we not see this plan as looking to make much sense. Someone like John Lennox might propose the “Gods mind” is something kind of hard for the human to fully comprehend. And that the God works in mysterious ways
The believer, like John Lennox, will still find a way for themselves to easily feel completely confident with their own conclusion. As if they’d need to be acting like as if they’d have easy way to know the mind of God. Being that they’d be able to be proposing these fanciful explanation
When i see this happen. I ask myself. Which way is it then?. Can human know mind of God. Or not? . Or can it be said that man can have way to know mind of god, only whenever it may suitable to suit the story line being proposed
Its a “flip flop philosophy”. Now you see it. Now you don’t. Now you can see. Now you cannot .There is little consistency in the claim. The claim constantly changes about, like the wind. Similar to like how we note the-cult rules and regulations will also do-so as well too. Flip flop flip flop “to suit each any every” particular situation of what presents itself
In this way you can make pretty much anything, seem to be like it “might fit” (perfectly)
John Lennox mention the idea that God couldn’t create a world that were perfect. As this would mean that there’d then be able to be “no love” within such a world as this, either.
So the question is, will heaven” therefore still have need to remain fairly similar to the way how things are here on earth, then too?
Surely if the perfect world is impossible on earth. Then it will need to remain impossible in heaven. So that the experience of “love” might then still exist
Does suffering have need to still also exist “in heaven” as well too?
So that human would still experience love
Like the philosophy that John Lennox proposed
Or is it going to become yet another flip flop type philosophy too?
And if heaven will still have need to have pain and suffering, so that love could be able to be experienced
Then why does the God then also go and chose to make imperfection, have need to become such a problem of like whats then deemed to be about sin
Its like it doesn’t seem to really make much sense
While its correct to say that the bible might have described the idea of the fall. So as to also help to provide us with some sort of fanciful explanations. So that we might then still find a way to understand phenomena’s of nature, in connection with a way for us also be able to retain a faith in God
Its still seem way to far fetched
And the fanciful story line itself means that we’d then have to create fanciful ideas of what then also have need to “become way more complex” than what they’d otherwise have needed to be (Occam’s Razor), were the human to instead simply face the prospect that perhaps a God doesn’t even exist, after all, and that therefore the-human are alone and totally responsible to take action so as to care for themselves, as best they can
Until we face up to this possibility. Chances are that we will also remain unprepared for situation of like what this one with the pandemic is right now
Huge part of the reason why humanity has been caught off gaurd. Directly relates back to the way in which majority of human have also “remained convinced in the fanciful idea” ,that a-God might exist, of who’s then also able to be there, for to be watching out over the safety and needs of the human. So as to not allow that anything entirely totally devastatingly bad, “could ever be able to” happen
In other word, God is being-thought to act as the human safety-net
I hate to say it
I doubt it will be what the human would want to hear being said
This is a dangerous way for human to remain
Human will continue to meet with these devastating events, like what the pandemic can be, of what they’ll remain totally unprepared for to meet with
Until they’d learn to accept full responsibility for themselves
To learn to live as if they’d be entirely alone. Without some God who’d be constantly acting as “their overseer” or “their foreman”
Only then will the human have finally learned how to accept full responsibility for all aspect of “long term planning strategies” as well then too
As it stands right now. We human, have been living our lives, as if most of us would be of the mind, that there’d always be the-God, out there, who’s acting as the foreman.
We expect the this foreman will step in at any moment in time, should “the God see” that the earths-situation were beginning to be getting way to far out of hand
This is the way, we presently have been attended to the “long term planning” strategies
Our longer term “planning strategy”,are pretty much been allowed to be non existent
Well.So that greed can then also be allowed to still maintain main focus
They want us all to “grow confident”, in the fanciful idea, that there’d be a God who’d always be around so as to be able to be acting as our foreman
They don’t like the idea that the human would become like responsible adult human. With minds of their own,that they’d all learn how, to use
They don’t want that
That would have to much potential to become like the “anti-christ to the element of greed” that still continue to exist in our world
It would ?
So therefore why
They’d far rather to still maintain a decent sized flock of sheep
Sheep are easy to manage.Sheeple minded people, they’ll follow the leader. Even if the leader might even be “trained” for position of being used, so to act like the “Judas goat” . To help lead the rest of the flock of sheep, toward the slaughter
Greedy people generally don’t care. Their own ability to gain great wealth, is about all that they’ll be bothered to be focused on most
If anything. Perhaps it would be this, that these pandemic would in fact be very timely happening of what really might be best to be making us all learn to consider and become aware of
Because, unless we do
Then who knows ?
Perhaps the idea of “the last days” , of what has been talked about, and been Prophet-sized about for generation after generation
Might sudden come into fruition . Even if it would be within a whole different sense of the words
It could very well develop into the form of being yet another mass extinction
It wont be the first mass extinction that’s taken place here on earth
These pandemic are presently helping to make us more aware of just how interconnected we all are.
And , the pollution of the seas and water ways and so on, the waste of resources, are also able to be doing likewise too. Even without a God, nature would still have a way to teach the human “some lessons” in their lives
Teaches the humans some lesson, even whether they’d choose to learn from them lessons, or not
Prayer wont serve to stop it from occurring either. This is also “a lesson” in itself
John Lennox is is also allowing his own bias to take hold of him, in my view. With the way what he proposes “moral dilemma” , should belief in God not exist
Consider this question
Lets think about the Pirahã people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirah%C3%A3_people
Within John Lennox worldview. John would need to be deeming the Pirahã people to need to be “lawless and immoral “
Being that they’d evolved without a belief in a God
In my view. i feel that John is allowing himself to still be misled by bias
He also act so as to devalue all the unbeliever’s natural sense of moral value
Moral codes, are little different to the humans road codes,and building code and health and safety codes are also like
Since when did God “have need” to advise human on how to go about developing their road codes?
We all have natural ways in which to devise a type of objective value to decision we’d make
The believer might then comment. Yes but, how can you explain the fact that generally speaking, human moral worldwide, can be noted to be all comparatively similar
My answer would be, if the “human brains” what are useed in the process of “thinking”, are all comparatively similar also as well to
Then we have reason to feel far more surprised should we have noted there to be extremely vast differences, in moral code
Its through “natural occurrence” that all human minds would evolve fairly similar conclusion, sooner or later